78 RPM - Enrico Caruso - La Donna E Mobile - His Master's Voice - UK

78 RPM Record

Artist:	Enrico Caruso
Label:	His Master's Voice
Country:	UK
Catalogue:	2-52641
Date:	1908
Format:	10"
Collection:	I Own It I Want It
Community:	4 Own, 1 Wants
Price Guide:	$20
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PRICE GUIDE

$20

Track	Artist	Title	Composer	Rating
A	Enrico Caruso	La Donna E Mobile	Verdi	Rate

Notes

La Donna E Mobile from Rigoletto by Verdi
Comm. Enrico Caruso

Recorded Camden March 1908, matrix number A6033 (Victor ledger has B6033, runout has A6033). Also released as Victor 87017. Also released as Concert Grand with G.C. prefixed catalogue number.
Originally released by Gramophone Company 'Concert Grand'. This record stayed in the catalogue under this number for a long time, probably up to the mid twenties. It was pressed new during the period in the catalogue; the label with 'His Master's Voice' as shown dates from after 1910 and probably around 1920.

The recording was re-released on a double-sided record in the mid twenties.

Images

Number: 447647

THUMBNAIL
Uploaded By: RobertG
Description: Later label, probably early 1920ies

Number: 3315437

Uploaded By: MrPasta SUBS
Description: A Side Label

Number: 2127226

Uploaded By: Bamboo
Description: Label Variation

Number: 3303237

Uploaded By: Tonybutt
Description: Alternate label

Comments and Reviews


MrPasta SUBS 24th Jun 2023



Bamboo 18th Jan 2020		Label Variation added. (Same Matrix Number).



these4578s 14th Oct 2015		There may be a number of reasons for incorrect speeds being given. For example, this Victor Caruso side is noted by Victor as being sung half a step below score pitch, but did they tell the Gramophone Co. when they released it? If not, someone could think they had found the correct speed by tuning to the score without realising Caruso had transposed it down. As to standards, in 1908 there was no standard. Have a flick through the speeds shown for John McCormack sessions for HMV & Victor between 1910 and 1924 - they range from 75 RPM to 80.4. And if you really want to see variation, have a look at his Odeon sessions between 1906 and 1909 - they go from 71.29 RPM to 84 RPM!



RobertG 17th Sep 2015		Mysterious then! Indeed why did HMV add the sprinkling of different speeds to their catalogue? As they 'set the 78 standard', having 80 or 82 rpm in their catalogue would not reflect well I think on them - not good for perception of reliable quality from the 'original'. -Did they have access to notes or documents made during recordings that stated the machine was unfortunately running a bit fast that day? (True or not.) -Did they have a listening session and determined what the 'true' speed for best reproduction was? -Did they think it would look 'interesting' and make the catalogue seem more valuable? Mysterious... ( their reasons are likely lost in 'the mists of time' by now :)



these4578s 13th Sep 2015		Those HMV catalogues are awfully keen to put a great many things up at 80 RPM (or higher, in this case!) that don't belong there. Who knows why, did they want people to listen faster for "more brilliance", or did the marketing department have absolutely nothing to do with the recording department other than working for the same company? René Aagaard's pictorial discography, with speeds taken from Aida Favia-Artsay's "Caruso On Records" work, puts this session at 76.92 RPM.



RobertG 6th Sep 2015		Found a scan of 1923 HMV catalogue. This record then still listed under this number, midway page 364 in the red section. Indeed listed as single-sided, 10" with red label. Also this catalogue entry reveals that this record is 82rpm. That is not mentioned anywhere on the label, but perhaps tellingly there is not the usual 'Speed 78' line on there either.



BigBadBluesMan 14th Nov 2014



Pridesale 15th Oct 2014		(Re)Reading the company's history, apparently 'Gramophone' could not be trade marked in the UK , whereas 'His Master's Voice' could. So if the UK trade marks office had decided differently (Or Gramophone Concert Record/ Gramophone Monarch Record been trade marked as full phrases), things might have been different. Somewhat strange though to issues single sided discs on the 'new' label format, I just suppose Caruso was a strong seller in any format.



RobertG 14th Oct 2014		As a novice myself indeed look to 45cat as a high-quality source of dating info. (Also the reason for me to contribute back and scan and upload records :-) Ergo less about exactly when something is a label, but more about understanding what a particular record is; from when and with what context. For that suggest adding explanation to the notes that it was kept in catalogue up to mid-twenties and pressed new over the years. (Unsure to what extent The Gramophone Company thought of HMV as a new label here, there is a continuity in catalogue and numbering I suspect/think.)



RadnaNotions 13th Oct 2014		I should say I'm personally not too bothered either way. But my gut feeling is that if we're recording the labels as distinct entities then the release date should reflect the "release" date of the disc shown. That is to say, if a novice (and I'm no expert myself) came and looked at this page, he could come away with the impression that the disc he's got might be from as early as 1908. (And someone who isn't used to the idea of a record staying in press for more than a month or two would probably assume it must be from 1908.) As I say, I can live with that, but it does feel kind of wrong to me.



Pridesale 13th Oct 2014		I would prefer to see ' Gramophone Concert Record ' labels only entered to Gramophone Concert. (Both Angel and Gramophone and Dog logos) His Master's Voice under His Master's Voice. If same record listed under both , thats no problem, can be linked releases, (though of course strictly represses ) Similar must occur on 45cat where lables have changed during pressing runs over time.



scrough 11th Oct 2014		It was re-released on a double sided in the mid 1920s. I've put a couple of G&Ts into both the HMV and the Gramophone sections as an indication of the continuation from G&T to HMV, as well as 'see also' in the label headings. If anybody has any ideas on how to get around this problem....... And the matrix number was changed when it was pressed in England, so both are correct.



RadnaNotions 9th Oct 2014		Comparison with the B series labels might point to this being closer to the mid-20s. While I agree with scrough's analysis, if we continue to allow the various Gramophone labels to be entered as being distinct from His Master's Voice then we're likely to end up with the same record entered twice under two different labels but with the same release date.



RobertG 9th Oct 2014		As far as I could tell, this is the 1908 recording and matrix - the numbers tally with the company records for 1908. It's single sided, has angel on the reverse. However the label is much later, updated to a later company design-style. Pressed after 1910, perhaps even around 1920? Got it in a small stack that all probably date from between 1918 to 1923. Would not be surprised if this particular disk was sold in 1921 - expect there was a flurry of publicity and buying at time of his death.



scrough 8th Oct 2014		But this is the original 1908 release, with the original 1908 number. The label just indicates the date of pressing. The Nov. 1910 alpha-numeric numbers were only used on double-sided discs, initially the B 10 inch series, and the C 12 inch series.



lorangrecords SUBS 7th Oct 2014		The numbering system ceased in 1928.



lorangrecords SUBS 7th Oct 2014		I read in one of my books. "1907 Nov.: Reverted to Gramophone Co. Ltd. & moved to Hayes. 1908: UK pressings from Hayes factory. 1909: G.C. prefix dropped from 10". 1910 Nov.: adopted "His Master's Voice" trading name, dog trademark & alpha-numeric numbers. This must mean, that this release can't be from 1908. The original. Yes.



scrough 6th Oct 2014		Not a re-issue, just a different label. Single sided Gramophone Co releases remained in the catalogue with the same numbers into the 1920s. The GC prefix was used for 10" during the GramCo / G&T period, since 7" and 10" discs shared the same number series.



lorangrecords SUBS 6th Oct 2014		I approved this release, and the original date of rel. was 1908. But was His Master's Voice in use at that time? Nov. 1910 it was, I believe. That means a re-issue for this one. Any other ideas.

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Linked Releases

USA - Victor - 1908

Germany - Concert Record "Gramophone" - 1908

Germany - Grammophon - 1908