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PhilMH 7th Sep 2017
| | Platterlog catalogue for August 1988 (the first one I have) lists this CD as being in print in Australia with catalogue number 22772, but Platterlog tended to list numbers without hyphens or spaces, so that doesn't necessarily mean that the number was always shown that way on the copies sold here. It is also shown as distributed by WEA Records Pty. Limited, which was the company name then. The Discogs entry that Lee has linked to (same as the 1984 linked entry here) says Warner Music Australasia, so that would have to be an early 1990s issue, WEA having changed its name in Australia to Warner Music in the second week of October 1990 (I checked - the Platterlog new releases for 1 October 1990 are WEA, and the next week are WAR). Chances are that the 1984-1990 Australian release was one or other (or perhaps any of them at different times) of the European copies shown here, as WEA tended to import mostly European copies, but I think there were US copies of some albums floating around in that time frame too, which doesn't help!
Perhaps in the interim, whilst management are working out a solution (i.e they decide whether or not to retain International), this entry can remain as Europe, and the 1984 Australian entry here be updated to include a statement along the lines of "Earlier copies of this CD sold in Australia were imports from Europe and/or USA". One way or another, this site should have the facility to indicate that discs were (and are) often distributed in more than one country or region (either retain "International", or use multiple flags) because that is the reality that needs to be acknowledged, like it or not. |
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Lee Wrecker 6th Sep 2017
| | The Australian cat# for this release is 22772 without a hyphen. This is a common way our industry deals with what at first seem to be international cat#s but then end up completely unique usually by omitting all spaces and hyphens. So, although the Australian version uses the same cat#s that cat # is still different. Are the CDs the same or different? I say different because I wouldn't be comfortable adding a CD to international listing if the cat# didn't match exactly. |
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Lee Wrecker 6th Sep 2017
| | ady-lister says"Reasons: Cat#: 2277 is the USA reissue # and (2)44 131 is the Euro/German # so it's obviously intended for both markets." However, the presence of of multiple international cat#s is really no proof at all that a CD was in fact released in that market. I have plenty of CDs with French, German and EU cat#s that are Australian only releases. Artwork on CDs barely changes and cat#s particularly those in the barcode (or price code) box are often just transferred from region to region regardless of whether they are relevant or not. |
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ady_lister 6th Sep 2017
| | This entry is still a mess with 2 completely different releases merged together. The Target and the gold CD.
I lean towards International for this (and it's not something I lean towards lightly because I don't particulary like the concept of International)
Reasons: Cat#: 2277 is the USA reissue # and 44 131 is the Euro/German # so it's obviously intended for both markets.
I agree with the recommendations made by greg78s below except I'd advise that the USA only Target CD release is the one that states 'Made In USA by PDO' which unfortunately we don't have on the site. Any West German Targets should be International. |
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ady_lister 23rd Dec 2016
| | Here are the correct artwork photos. |
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Lee Wrecker 21st Dec 2016
| | ady_lister, you're right, apologies for grabbing the wrong end of the stick and beating about the bush with it and thank you for setting me straight. No wonder I couldn't find any other references to the flippin' things on the net then. Nevertheless, they still were produced specifically for the USA market which is the issue here. I will edit my prior comment to remove references to the factual error I've made so I don't look as stupid as I really am. There youse go I's all brainified again, hurrrurp.
Now what about the rest of my comment? You and anyone else for that matter can PM me if you have any ideas on how to tidy this CD entry business. I'm not just referring to this entry here I'm talking about a more general overall systems approach. I have been collaborating with a few other members recently and shortly I hope we'll be putting some ideas up for discussion in the forum on we can deal with some of the problems in CD World. So PM me with anything you might like to see raised in such a forum. Phew! now I'm back two days early from week of self imposed exile, ah well. |
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ady_lister 21st Dec 2016
| | Lee with the greatest of respect (and if you are even still reading) I don't think the Target CDs have anything to do with the US chain Target. It simply refers to the 'Target' design used on the CD which dates them as the earliest of WEA Family CD pressings. |
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gregs45s SUBS ● 18th Dec 2016
| | My fault gents,after looking at all the issues Discogs has to offer,here's what appears to have happened here,when i said all the issues were European,that of course was not entirely correct,my apologies.The Target Disc was indeed issued in the US,but not with this artwork,the Target Disc issue on Discogshas no barcode.The other scans all belong to a European re-issue,part of the 40 Golden Greats series (date unknown).So,basically,a US disc with the wrong artwork,so the following corrections have now been submitted :
Please create a separate entry for the US using the target Disc as the sole image -
2277-2 / 244 131 / 02277-2 / 1984 / no barcode
Please change this entry to Europe retaining images 61404/5,1220239/240
2277-2 / 244 131 / 02277-2 / (date unknown) / 07599022772. |
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Lee Wrecker 17th Dec 2016
| | Alright then, so the fact that it has a specifically designed Target label and was intended for sale in the USA nothing. Or did in Europe sell these with this label as well? To my mind the intended market is clearly the USA and the matching cat# and barcodes to the European release here indicate both versions should be classified as international. As flawed as the guidelines may be that is what they are at present.
Now, let's just put the shoe on the other foot for a while and consider the onus of proof. If this CD were to listed as European I think we will need proof that it was only ever sold in Europe with this label and furthermore it was never sold in the USA in this configuration. I know this sounds ludicrous but it is exactly opposite of what some European members are expecting the rest of us from outside Europe to do to back up our position when it comes whether CDs were released in a particular country, region or not. Alternately, many of our CDs are internationalised without our knowledge or consent on the basis of matching cat#s and barcode. For those of us in the rest of the world it comes across as though there are two sets of rules one for Europe and one for everywhere else. It may not be intentional but there seems to be concerted attempt to Internationalise as few European CDs as possible and as many as possible from elsewhere. The feeble arguments and cries of prove it on this page are testimony to this being the case.
I don't often take a peak into this part of the site much anymore and this endless kerfuffle is the reason why. I would estimate that at least 40-50 percent of the back catalogues released in Europe or the US have also been released in Australia but I just can't be bothered having to prove it to the enth degree (secondary cat#s anyone?) anytime I put this idea forward on a particular CD. When are the new sensible guidelines coming out? Over and out (well, of CD World for at least a week).
You may discuss my comments here but don't expect a response from me I've migrated to Books where things are bit more clear cut. |
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philwill SUBS 17th Dec 2016
| | There is no evidence in the images for the original submission that this was indeed a US release and the other site has this original submission down as "UK & Europe". However, this serious collector of "target" CDs confirms that most were manufactured in either West Germany or Japan for distribution in the U.S. before domestic pressing facilities went online.
Sadly, this doesn't get us any further forward... :-( |
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Lee Wrecker 17th Dec 2016
| | If this was for sale in the USA it must be made International it is after all the very same identical release and all the early releases with no barcode should be made International if they have the same cat#. |
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gregs45s SUBS ● 17th Dec 2016
| | Bit of a mix up here i think?,all the images are of European releases,so US is not the country here,it needs changing to Europe (correction submitted),the US release shares the Cat.No,but has a different barcode (075992723923)(early releases,no barcode),also the release with the Target Disc had no barcode,the accompanying image (616405) of the rear tray artwork,is of a later re-release i think,in fact,i think it may be the same as philwill's (1220240).(You see don't i :) |
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philwill SUBS 16th Dec 2016
| | Just added CD and inlay images from my European copy, which shares same cat#s & barcode with US issue. Perhaps this should be International? |
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