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TopPopper 25th Sep 2016
| | Have you got a scanner? If so, please add some pics! From what you say, there might be a case for putting your copy on a new page - would be great to see it. |
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twholiday 25th Sep 2016
| | I just purchased a lot of about 140 cassettes and this one was in there. Mine looks a little different though. The label is printed in blue directly on the tape. I also can't find Italy on it anywhere. I see this thread hasn't been commented on in a few years, just wanted to add my little bit of input. |
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bobzyeruncle 25th Mar 2014
| | I wonder if Alan Williams' ownership of Lingasong was what provoked the Beatles to take legal action. Old grudges die hard, sometimes. |
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Dr Doom SUBS 24th Mar 2014
| | Discogs pheonix page states all releases are unliscenced recordings and unofficial
That's a different Phoenix label.
Just to add to the confusion!
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JPGR&B SUBS 21st Mar 2014
| | I note the track listing in different from the LP release, and other labels of course apart from Polydor have subsequently released the Sheridan recordings Audiofidelity to me do appear semi legitimate and I certainly bought all the vinyl LPs in a record store, most of them from either HMV in Oxford Street, London or from a Woolworths store, so I would want all the albums (most of which I posted ) left as they are and not put under Bootleg (please). In addition, many well-regarded Beatles discography books do not refer to the vinyl LPs as bootlegs.
Perhaps just leave this cassette as a bootleg. |
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An6y66 21st Mar 2014
| | What you say is true about the star club recordings however this tape has all the tracks where the beatles play with tony sheridan, which polydor owned, and the tracks from the decca audition tape which was not meant for public release.
So I'm still voting for bootleg |
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TopPopper 21st Mar 2014
| | Not sure that's right. Shops might have stocked them in good faith but that doesn't mean they were legit. There were some bootlegs in America (Alpha-Omega) which were actually advertised on TV before the plug was pulled. It doesn't follow that they were legal prior to the court case; it's just that it took the count to put a stop to it. If they were illegal in 1988, then they had been illegal all along. |
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nboldock 21st Mar 2014
| | If the case wasn't heard until 1998 then logically it follows that when they were released some years before that, if they were released commercially and available in the shops, then they weren't bootlegs. Anybody releasing them after 1998 without permission, well that's a different story. |
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TopPopper 21st Mar 2014
| | I initially agreed that these weren't bootlegs but opportunist releases. But then I got to thinking: why can't I go to a gig tomorrow, tape it and release it legally? The answer seems to be that the performance belongs to the artist to exploit (not to their record label). That newspaper report mentions a claim that Lennon gave permission in 1962, which seems unlikely and quite convenient in that he couldn't be there in court to confirm it. Assuming that's not the gospel truth, these would be boots in my opinion, and I guess that's what the court decision found as well. |
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JPGR&B SUBS 21st Mar 2014
| | In 1981 Audiofidelity took over the British packaging of the Star Club tapes and initially released them across two LPs on their Phoenix label. Over the 1980s they continued to rehash them over a number of their labels:
Phoenix
Phoenix10
Phoenix 20
and issued the Decca auditions:
Audiofidelity
They weren't the only company of course that had released the Star Club tapes. The original release of the tapes came in the in the 1970s:
Bellaphon
Lingasong
And in the 1980s also by:
Breakaway
Topline
So I think Phoenix stands alongside all of these as it is, not as a Bootleg but an opportunistic company trying to make some money out of Ted "King Size" Taylor's recordings from the Star Club.
Of course, when Lingasong released the original vinyl album on CD in 1996, The Beatles / Apple finally decided to do something about it and filed a lawsuit (probably spurned on by the fact that they were releasing the Anthology series). Lingasong lost the case in 1998, and agreed to stop all sales of the album and surrender the original tapes to The Beatles. For more see this newspaper report from Saturday 9 May 1998. |
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TopPopper 20th Mar 2014
| | Edited comment.
I was going to suggest these aren't bootlegs, but I now think they are because of performer rights. |
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An6y66 20th Mar 2014
| | Okay then. Ive found a few more beatles pheonix tapes under the Italy flag that need sorting and maybe changing to phronix20 didn't look that closely |
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nboldock 20th Mar 2014
| | Have raised it on the Mod forum. Watch this space. |
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An6y66 20th Mar 2014
| | Someone may want to go through and change the flag over on vinyl album world then. I don't know how many other pheonix tapes are here yet that need changing |
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nboldock 20th Mar 2014
| | Ah... they are related to the notorious Radioactive (allegedly). It all becomes clear, bootleg would seem to be correct if that's the case.
Good point about the address, it may of course be totally fake; I hadn't thought of that.
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An6y66 20th Mar 2014
| | Discogs pheonix page states all releases are unliscenced recordings and unofficial |
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An6y66 20th Mar 2014
| | Well this one says uk on the cassette yet italy on the inlay, seems a bit dodgey
Also is the address on the lp actually real or just a made up one? |
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nboldock 20th Mar 2014
| | ARE they bootlegs though? The LP has the company address on the back, which seems a bit of a daft thing to do if you're not exactly legitimate.
If they are definitely boots then Yes, we should change the LP entry to reflect that.
As for the label, thumbs up to Phoenix 20 I think.
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An6y66 20th Mar 2014
| | Well they are bootlegs I don't know why they don't count as then over on vinyl albums. Ill get the label name changed though. |
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TopPopper 20th Mar 2014
| | Just come across an LP on the LP world, on the same label. There the label is given as Phoenix 20 (with a space before "20"). I think this ought to be brought in line. Looks like there is also a Phoenix label, run by the same company and carrying similar recordings. They aren't considered bootlegs over on LP world. |
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An6y66 15th Mar 2014
| | Yeah thats what i was confused about, i know its a bootleg so it doesnt really matter but i added it as pheonix then noticed afterwards that it has the 20 afterwards!
my vote is for pheonix20 aswell. |
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TopPopper 15th Mar 2014
| | On this evidence alone, I'd say Phoenix20. But is there a Phoenix label also in use? If so, the "20" might just be something to do with 20 Hits. |
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An6y66 15th Mar 2014
| | Should the label be phoenix20 or just pheonix? |
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