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| Export copy query |
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| 2nd Oct 2013, 8:58 AM | #1 REPORT | |
 | TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | Hi. I've got what I call an export copy - it's a UK album which was sold in West Germany. It differs from the UK copy only in that there is a small sticker on the sleeve with the West German catalogue number. The LP itself is the UK copy, with UK catalogue number intact on the labels. Should I list it as German? Or UK Export? or just a variety of the standard UK? It is literally the UK copy plus one sticker. To my knowledge there's no West German edition apart from this one. Thanks. |
| 2nd Oct 2013, 10:58 AM | #2 REPORT | |
 | nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator | German please. Add a Note about its UK origins perhaps. |
| 2nd Oct 2013, 5:12 PM | #3 REPORT | |
 | janiejjones Member since Aug 2011 4920 Points Moderator | I think these "stickered" cat#s should always go with the original country's entry, as notes and additional pics. There is no difference at all, and anyone can put a sticker onto anything. Besides, there are also "stickered" cat#s within UK, for example when larger labels switch distributors, existing stock just gets stickered and sold on within the new number system (right now I can think of Island and Virgin) If at some time it is noted that one of these "sticker" releases would fill a gap in a labels discography, OC will probably have found some advanced ways of database manipulation to deal with it.  |
| 2nd Oct 2013, 5:33 PM | #4 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | I've done as suggested and listed it as a German LP. It's a tricky one - depends how you look at it. Yes, it's a UK pressing, but copies with the sticker were only sold in West Germany, so there's a difference. |
| 4th Oct 2013, 10:03 PM | #5 REPORT | |
 | GEMSMFAN Member since Jan 2013 3324 Points | TopPopper: the record labels.. do they have the stickers also? otherwise I agree with janiejjones, that the original country (that is where manufactured) should be used with comments in Notes. |
| 5th Oct 2013, 12:28 AM | #6 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | No, nothing on the labels. I'm completely torn over what's best. If the issue is, where were they sold, rather than where were they manufactured, then it's Germany. Edited by TopPopper on 5th Oct 2013, 12:30 AM |
| 5th Oct 2013, 9:17 AM | #7 REPORT | |
| nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator | It was sold in Germany with a distinct Cat No. Ergo, Germany. |
| 5th Oct 2013, 10:21 PM | #8 REPORT | |
| lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5803 Points Moderator | The intented market. Germany? Yes. |
| 13th Oct 2013, 11:23 AM | #9 REPORT | |
 | Dr Doom SUBS I wanna eat an artichoke once in a while Member since Feb 2008 25247 Points Administrator | Yes it can be added as German and mention in notes that it's UK manufactured. |
| 14th Oct 2013, 1:00 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| janiejjones Member since Aug 2011 4920 Points Moderator | May I again disagree on this? I still believe these should remain "notable" but not "submittable", if you get me. Unless proven wrong by someone, I think these things were just shipped by the carload (or package or box or container or whatever) from the original factory or distribution warehouse, taken from the standard stock, and then get their stickers at the receiving end. Some of these importers/distributors were also part of a record company, so their ordering system would assign cat#s fitting within the organisation, and use stickers. Similarly, I seem to recall that when distribution deals within the UK switched for labels like Island or Stiff or somesuch, existing stocks from the previous deal would be stickered, or blacked out old cat#s, to fit within the new partners system. No reason to dump old stock as surplus. These would also get a "note", but not a new entry, wouldn't they? |
| 15th Oct 2013, 10:59 AM | #11 REPORT | |
| thatsunday Member since Dec 2012 4569 Points Moderator | I totally agree with Janie. These stickered releases were available in Germany, like thousands of other imports, but technically they should stay UK only. In the 70s/80s all german major labels had departments for importing records,from their own labels or third parties. For example: IMS = Polygram EMI ASD Intercord Record Service BISS= Bellaphon ARIS= Ariola TIS= Teldec Some put stickers with catalogue numbers on the records (ARIS, but sometimes with their own import numbers sequences), some used generic stickers (Intercord on dozens Cherry Red releases), some did nothing to mark the imports. If I peel off an ARIS sticker, what do I have? An UK release, nothing more or less. If we take this "on sale in a country means it should be entered for this country too" idea to the extreme: some labels (Roadrunner in the 80s for example) printed all their worldwide distributors names on the back sleeves. Sometimes up to 20 companies. I assume nobody wants an identical releases to be on the database 20 times? |
| 15th Oct 2013, 11:05 AM | #12 REPORT | |
| nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator |
thatsunday wrote:
If I peel off an ARIS sticker, what do I have?
Actually, I'd argue you have a German release that you've removed the sticker from. It may only be a sticker but the fact it's a sticker isn't the deciding factor. The objective with any record on here is to identify the country of release. The sleeve with the sticker on it was not released in Britain, it was released in Germany. Hence, it's German. Surely? If an imported record was put into a German-printed sleeve and then released in Germany, we'd agree THAT was German, wouldn't we? This is no different except the sleeve has been localised in a different (and quicker/easier) manner. |
| 15th Oct 2013, 11:26 AM | #13 REPORT | |
| janiejjones Member since Aug 2011 4920 Points Moderator |
nboldock wrote:
It may only be a sticker but the fact it's a sticker isn't the deciding factor. The objective with any record on here is to identify the country of release. The sleeve with the sticker on it was not released in Britain, it was released in Germany. Hence, it's German. Surely?
If an imported record was put into a German-printed sleeve and then released in Germany, we'd agree THAT was German, wouldn't we? This is no different except the sleeve has been localised in a different (and quicker/easier) manner. |
| 15th Oct 2013, 11:32 AM | #14 REPORT | |
| thatsunday Member since Dec 2012 4569 Points Moderator |
Quote:
The sleeve with the sticker on it was not released in Britain, it was released in Germany
If we want to have all records released as imports in Germany as german releases, someone has to wade through all distributors lists, release schedules etc. to identify the non-stickered ones  Everyone can import a record and put a sticker on a record, but putting an imported record inside a locally manufactured sleeve is a quite different deal (you need an approval from the label for example). Edited by thatsunday on 15th Oct 2013, 11:32 AM |
| 15th Oct 2013, 11:47 AM | #15 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | Are you saying that the stickering was done unilaterally by the German dealers - and not by the UK firm who sent the records out? I think that might be the decisive factor in this debate. If the Germans ordered UK stock and then stickered it for their own purposes, then these are UK albums in my view. If they were stickered prior to being exported, then they are customised for the German market and are German releases. Edited by TopPopper on 15th Oct 2013, 11:48 AM |
| 15th Oct 2013, 8:02 PM | #16 REPORT | |
 | sladesounds Turning rebellion into money since 1962 Member since Nov 2009 6566 Points Moderator |
TopPopper wrote:
If they were stickered prior to being exported, then they are customised for the German market and are German releases.
I would agree - if the "record company" has allocated a German Cat# (differing from the original UK #) and had stickers printed to ensure the album showed that (correct for the German Market) Cat# then it's a German release. I assume if it sold enough copies it would hit the German charts with the "stickered" Cat# being the registered detail not the UK one. Edited by sladesounds on 15th Oct 2013, 8:06 PM |
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