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| First Records - Taiwan |
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| 7th Oct 2013, 9:07 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | carryonsidney a happy disposition is an omnious sign.... Member since Feb 2010 1707 Points Moderator | I have been researching First Records all day. 3 results: Definately Taiwan 99% sure these are basically bootlegs not beeing licensed and dubbed direct from LP's. 90% the releases would be contempories of the equivalent UK or USA releases, turns out these albums were mostly sold to GI's stationed in Taiwan and were sold very cheaply, from the 1950's onwards, so you can assume the date is probably close to the original release. see this page and comments Edited by carryonsidney on 7th Oct 2013, 9:09 PM |
| 7th Oct 2013, 9:56 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | bobzyeruncle Member since Jan 2013 28 Points | The stampers used on these releases were often re-used from American or UK sources. How the TW companies got them is anybody's guess. A quick look at the trail-off vinyl quickly reveals their origin. I've got more than a few that have 'Bell Sound's logo. Most of the Beatles releases have the YEX ( and or) XEX. If these were simply needle-drops, it's unlikely that bootlegers would have gone through the trouble to meticulously duplicate stuff like that. Mysterious is the best term I can think of. Edited by bobzyeruncle on 7th Oct 2013, 10:04 PM |
| 7th Oct 2013, 10:19 PM | #3 REPORT | |
| carryonsidney a happy disposition is an omnious sign.... Member since Feb 2010 1707 Points Moderator | Sorry not a dub in the taping sense, but a dub using a reverse imprint? Not too sure if its possible but using a brand new lp as the master and making a 2nd master from it- the effect would be to lift all the stamped details straight from the vinyl and might account for the terrible sound quality on these records? |
| 7th Oct 2013, 10:33 PM | #4 REPORT | |
| bobzyeruncle Member since Jan 2013 28 Points | I suppose it's possible. The sound is variable on these. I've got a few that sound great, despite the crap vinyl. Admittedly, the ones that do aren't the majority of those I have. |
| 7th Oct 2013, 10:46 PM | #5 REPORT | |
 | TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | I think that's probably what happened. When a standard record is produced, the first transfer to disc is by cutting an acetate, which is a softer material than vinyl (the acetate is not actually made of acetate but some sort of lacquer). The acetates are then metal plated, to create a basic "negative" from which records can be pressed. So if it's possible to make a metal negative from an acetate, I'm sure someone's figured out how to do it from a vinyl record. Edited by TopPopper on 7th Oct 2013, 10:47 PM |
| 7th Oct 2013, 11:59 PM | #6 REPORT | |
| bobzyeruncle Member since Jan 2013 28 Points | Acetates are cut for reference purposes, though. Other materials, commonly called 'laquers' are used for cutting, which are in turn plated and used to make stampers. They're rather rigid, as an acetate is far too soft and actually flammable. It is true that you could theoretically use a mono vinyl copy to reverse a cut to 'wax', but highly unlikely, as the end result would be basically unplayable. Transferring something like that to microgroove stereo is impossible. Edited by bobzyeruncle on 8th Oct 2013, 6:35 AM |
| 8th Oct 2013, 7:53 AM | #7 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | I thought an acetate and a lacquer were the same? I looked on Wiki (which I know isn't the best source!) and it says: "Acetates are typically produced by dubbing from a master tape recording. By electroplating the acetate master, stampers (special moulds) can be created, which in turn are used to press large quantities of regular vinyl records." and "the examples most commonly encountered today are 10 or 12 inches in diameter and consist of an aluminum core disc coated with black nitrocellulose lacquer, commonly but incorrectly called "acetate" for reasons which are uncertain. Blank discs were traditionally produced in several different grades... , top-quality blanks were intended for cutting the master discs that would be electroplated to create stampers (negative metal molds) for pressing ordinary records. Second-quality blanks were considered adequate for non-critical uses such as tests and demo discs." From this, it sounds like a standard acetate which a band might make for reference would be the same sort of object as the disc cut to start manufacturing the LP, but not as good quality. As you say, it might be unsuitable for making stampers. But the technical problem is whether a vinyl LP could be electroplated in the same way. If it could, that's a possible answer to how these Taiwanese LPs, complete with matrix numbers, were made. Edited by TopPopper on 8th Oct 2013, 7:56 AM |
| 8th Oct 2013, 2:17 PM | #8 REPORT | |
| carryonsidney a happy disposition is an omnious sign.... Member since Feb 2010 1707 Points Moderator | I used to work in an electroplaters many years ago, anything that has a static charge can be plated, so yes you could use a normal vinyl as the master. All you do is spray it with silver nitrate* and then nickel plate it. [*silver something at least] |
| 8th Oct 2013, 6:10 PM | #9 REPORT | |
| bobzyeruncle Member since Jan 2013 28 Points | Might be fun to have a vinyl record electroplated to see if you could make a decent stamper out of it. I'll have to admit, if that's what the Taiwanese bootleggers were doing, the result was satisfactory. Edited by bobzyeruncle on 8th Oct 2013, 6:14 PM |
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Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
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