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| Review Of Multiple Catalog Number |
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| 19th Jun 2014, 2:57 AM | #1 REPORT | |
 | GEMSMFAN Member since Jan 2013 3324 Points | Unsure if incorrect catalog numbers or bar codes mean much in here, but since we are providing this info, it should be as accurate as possible, shouldn't it? Otherwise, why bother to include it? I'm noticing a multiple number is being added to "Sony" and "Sony Latin" releases. Note this release. The bar code (which quite often includes the catalog number, or ususlly part of it, that is minus any letter prefixes) only includes the first number 82746. The 2nd number following the slash ( / ) is in fact another number which should be added as the alternate and not combined. It is actually a variation of the catalog number used outside the USA. Note the European release uses it, as does the Mexican release. Also, several the above label releases, don't always include the 2nd number. Any response to this? and should this require changes to the above 2 labels?? Edited by GEMSMFAN on 19th Jun 2014, 3:06 AM |
| 19th Jun 2014, 11:51 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | Juke Jules SUBS Tell me he's lazy, tell me he's slow Member since Jan 2011 4151 Points Moderator | Thanks - Is that correct now? |
| 20th Jun 2014, 5:02 AM | #3 REPORT | |
| GEMSMFAN Member since Jan 2013 3324 Points | that's correct, but there are more on both labels, as well as the Globo label. |
| 23rd Jun 2014, 6:45 PM | #4 REPORT | |
| jaimeeduardo Member since Dec 2012 23849 Points | While other systems/discographies sometimes use core elements of the catalogue number to identify items, that has not been the practice in 45Worlds. Others have suggested using partial catalogue numbers in 45Worlds without success. It's not that one method is right, and one is wrong, it's that using mixed methods is unwise. I prefer the full catalogue number form used in 45Worlds because it is the most accurate form, it is the most searchable form. Using this full number is the practice seen in other systems, from Discogs to the more academic Library of Congress, and this is how I transcribed the number on the record in question. On the item linked here, changing the catalogue number has eliminated one of the chief identifiers for the item. In the future, others are likely to input a duplicate record, or initiate an additional change, since the record no longer matches the item described. (I plan on adding more images to this record, so there will at least be a visual record of the actual catalogue number. Many examples in 45Worlds contain no images). A maxim often heard in materials organization is "Stick to the piece." Our job is to organize data and transcribe what is on the piece. Deviating from this results in the kinds of problems encountered here. The Comments option allows ample room for additional information. This situation reminds me of the recent fiasco with the CBS label. Most of the records were input correctly, then some were changed to other name forms (scattering the items), now most have been changed back to the original form, the prominent label name "CBS" that appears on each item. How many hours were wasted on this, and what was accomplished? Nothing. "Sticking to the piece" was the solution. Sometimes the damage done by these changes can't be undone. In the CBS case, several records remain in limbo under what is probably a non-existent CBS-linked label name. Without images, and since the information (as is often the case) can't be verified at this time using the Internet, there remains (for now) no way to determine the actual label identity, even if one was once identified correctly upon input. Allowing partial catalogue numbers won't affect just this item. Will each Worlds member decide which numbers to shorten? Will the system maintain a list of exceptions for various labels? How will participants learn about these exceptions? The record referred to here was correct and complete as originally input (getting to be an old story!), so please reverse the change (and please don't allow these kinds of damaging changes in the future). For now, I will add a comment: "Catalogue number on item: ..." to make this item searchable and identifiable. However, I would rather not have to do this for other items. Let's not repeat CBS. |
| 24th Jun 2014, 10:07 AM | #5 REPORT | |
 | janiejjones Member since Aug 2011 4952 Points Moderator | I am with jaimeeduardo on this. It is no use deducing from other countries' cat#s, extracting parts from them, or interpreting them in any way. Just list them. Perhaps part of the problem is if a slash is part of a cat# instead of a hyphen or dot, it gets interpreted as "secondary"? Of course the main trouble started , as many others, whwn in the 80s a simple cat# was no longer enough, and part#s and cross-company id#s and what else became necessary, and a name on a label no longer meant a label, but a production compqany, or an owning or licensing unit, or perhaps even a sponsor...... rant mode off, just list what is there, and link to what else is on the database. |
| 24th Jun 2014, 3:51 PM | #6 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator |
GEMSMFAN wrote:
Unsure if incorrect catalog numbers or bar codes mean much in here, but since we are providing this info, it should be as accurate as possible, shouldn't it? Otherwise, why bother to include it?
I'm noticing a multiple number is being added to "Sony" and "Sony Latin" releases. Note this release. This particular entry and the discussion of catalogue numbers with regard to it (with no offense intended to anyone) is one of the type that really bugs me. The images provided show no justification for ANY catalogue number given. Unless an image of the actual CD is given as well as that of the back of the CD packaging, it is difficult to discuss what should be done. Now in the case of This One the answer is less muddy -- I would do as is done there ----------------- All that said -- we face the same thing in the 78 RPM world. I am constantly getting ''broken' album sets -- where I get one or two discs of a multi-disc album. So the conumdrum becomes, do I list the discs with the album catalogue number, if known, or do I list them individually with the catalogue number of the album as an extra number -- because -- in many case the individual discs do not carry the album number, and unless I go back in time to check  , I have no idea if the disks were also available separately or not.Bottom line -- in my opinion -- is you have to go with exactly what is on the disk and the printed material with any entry. Because we don't work for Sony or whomever (geez anymore it looks like there is only Sony/BMG and Universal) we have no idea what the meaning of the catalogue numbers are -- and have no way to decide how to interpret them Amy --resident girl perfectionista Edited by Jock_Girl on 24th Jun 2014, 4:45 PM |
| 24th Jun 2014, 4:31 PM | #7 REPORT | |
 | nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7281 Points Moderator | Some good points made by all here. I think it's important to note that the "/" DOES look like a separator for two distinct catalogue numbers, and in most cases would be - so I think it is perfectly understandable that there has been some confusion here. I would also have interpreted the / as a separator (which I now see, it isn't - in this case). Amy also hits the nail on the head re images and without them sometimes we have to make a judgement call. It won't always be right... but we usually get there in the end! |
| 24th Jun 2014, 5:13 PM | #8 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | In thinking about this further -- coz I can -- Polydor has a similar thing. In the USA and Canada in the 1970s , Polydor 45s carried a local catalogue number PD xxxxx and then an International number US Polydor PD 14373 UK Polydor 2066 774 Ah -- should someone go back and add those International numbers to teh US and Canadian 45s? So -- this makes me wonder of the Sony Latin catalogue numbers are an international number followed by a number for the individual country or territory of sale Amy |
| 25th Jun 2014, 4:58 AM | #9 REPORT | |
| GEMSMFAN Member since Jan 2013 3324 Points |
nboldock wrote:
I think it's important to note that the "/" DOES look like a separator for two distinct catalogue numbers, and in most cases would be - so I think it is perfectly understandable that there has been some confusion here. I would also have interpreted the / as a separator (which I now see, it isn't - in this case). It is in fact a separator, as one will note that not all CD's (on these labels) have "/" followed by another number and once again, the bar code quite often includes the number and the 2nd number is NOT included. Call it the way you want, they are two separate numbers with the 2nd number being a variation of the foreign number used. One problem in here and Discogs is that you don't have a true expert (from the label) to set the record straight, so leave it in the end to a moderator to end this. ... it's one number to all of you, OK - cased closed :-) As for the CBS situation, 2 different CBS's are being entered together (the early Columbia U.S. market CD's produced in Japan by CBS/Sony AND the Latin music releases) and the bar codes clearly are showing this. Take note of something jamieeduardo, in Vinyl Albums, releases were submitted as Discos CBS International as it clearly shows those letters (logo) across the top and with a CBS logo, yet once the release was put on CD, it's only "CBS" even though the bottom clearly states "Manufactured by Discos CBS International" Realizing that "Discos" is prohibited as is "Records", the CD releases should be submitted as "CBS International" and not "CBS", but whatever.. again it's a moderators call in the end, use "CBS", cased closed :-) I will make one point, someone else may eventually input on this further (better proof) and as more releases get submitted, it will be the moderators who will have to make all the changes. Then I'll have the last laugh. Edited by GEMSMFAN on 25th Jun 2014, 5:16 AM |
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Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45cat for 7" singles : 45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds