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Muntz Cartridge

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28th Jan 2015, 6:31 PM		#1 REPORT
	lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5822 Points Moderator	Sorry to disturb you guys, but what is MUNTZ. Don't tell me I'm an idiot, because I already know that.

28th Jan 2015, 6:37 PM		#2 REPORT
	Charlie Chalk Self praise is no recommendation. Member since Oct 2011 45406 Points Moderator	Muntz

28th Jan 2015, 6:43 PM		#3 REPORT
	Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator	"Mad Man Muntz" took Broadcast cartridges, or "carts" and put albums on them to create the four track tape cartridge. Then someone (not sure who) took the cartridge, added the pinch roller inside, and added tape with the oxide on both sides and the 8 track cartridge was born.

28th Jan 2015, 6:44 PM		#4 REPORT
	lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5822 Points Moderator	Hello Charlie. So THIS is a Muntz Cartridge instead od Casette single Am I right?

28th Jan 2015, 6:45 PM		#5 REPORT
	lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5822 Points Moderator	Thanks Trainman. That, I didn't know either.

28th Jan 2015, 6:55 PM		#6 REPORT
	Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator	The cartridge you referenced was a standard "compact cassette" developed by Philips. The "muntz" would be better known as a "4 track cartridge". It would look like this, but with a fancy label for consumers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidelipac In fact, read down, at the bottom of the article they talk about Muntz, and how it was Bill Lear (of Lear Jet fame) who modified the idea to create the 8 track.

28th Jan 2015, 7:04 PM		#7 REPORT
	lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5822 Points Moderator	Ok. Thanks for the info help. Now I know a little bit more. The school of life never ends. Thanks for that

28th Jan 2015, 7:27 PM		#8 REPORT
	Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator	In many ways, Earl Muntz can be said to be visionary as far as bringing affordable entertainment, both TV and music, to the masses. His early TVs sold for under $100 in 1947, which while still expensive, was affordable (average wage then was $3,500 -- a car cost $1,500, and a house cost $13,000) -- That's about $1,000 today. His tape cartridges were on the forefront of putting music in cars in the 1960s Amy

28th Jan 2015, 7:42 PM		#9 REPORT
	lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5822 Points Moderator	Wrong forum, but to continue with this item, I wonder if it's to go too far, to ask for "Micro-Cassette in the drop down menue. Four tracks feels like an EP but not a single. Maybe Cassette EP?

30th Jan 2015, 11:27 AM		#10 REPORT
	Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points	Earl Muntz's development which became the 8-track cartridge, explained simply, has just one reel of tape. As it's played, the tape peels off at the hub, runs out past the playback head, then onto the outer edge of the reel. The four "programmes" progress through when a piece of foil attached to the tape(spliced in) comes in contact with a sensor, which triggers a solenoid, which in turn switches at each successive pass, from Programme 1 through to programme 4. The track arrangements on these albums do not generally match their cassette or LP counterparts for a given album in this format. The track flow is: Prog.1 - A1, B1, A2; Prog.2 - B2, A3, B3; Prog.3 - A4, B4, A5; Prog.4: B5, A6, B6, assuming twelve cuts(tracks) in the album.

30th Jan 2015, 11:45 AM		#11 REPORT
	Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator	Actually, one of the biggest problems with 8 tracks (apart from the lousy fidelity) was often the jump from one track to the next occurred right in the middle of a song!

30th Jan 2015, 4:09 PM		#12 REPORT
	Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points	Trainman wrote: Actually, one of the biggest problems with 8 tracks (apart from the lousy fidelity) was often the jump from one track to the next occurred right in the middle of a song! That's because there was only so much tape in the cartridge. The tape speed was 3.75 inches per second(or 3 and 3-quarters if you prefer) and the amount of tape was for one pass of 20 minutes(multiplied by four "programmes" gives the same as a CD-R in today's technology. The tape width was (I think) one inch across, same as a VHS videotape, maybe less, so the audio track pairs were probably slightly narrower than on a regular compact cassette.. The cutting of a song in half? that happened on cassettes too on occasion, a result of bad planning and not providing enough tape for the album.

30th Jan 2015, 4:54 PM		#13 REPORT
	Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3765 Points Moderator	Always wondered what all the hoo-ha was about 8 tracks (Sorry for straying off format)... some people swear by them. Twice I came across a load of these at boot-fairs in summer last year, one was a rubble bag full of 8 tracks by Cream and the Rolling Stones. Was tempted at the time to buy them, but have no player, and wouldn't know if it would be worth getting one on ebay. But if they are no good I won't bother. (Anyone else thinking: Munson from Kingpin?)

30th Jan 2015, 10:49 PM		#14 REPORT
	Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator	The 8 tracks were 1/4" tape, but as I recall, they may have had oxide on both sides and were spliced in a Mobius strip configuration to double the playing time (I can't find one at the moment to check, there might be a box of 'em out in the garage somewhere). Another problem was the binder in the tape tended to deteriorate, and if you didn't play them at least once every couple months, they'd dissolve inside into a gummy mess of tape glued to itself, and the first time you tried to play it , it wound around the capstan and destroyed itself (not to mention needing to almost take the machine apart to get the gummed up tape out)

30th Jan 2015, 10:57 PM		#15 REPORT
	Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3765 Points Moderator	How on earth did they make a Mobius loop play through a tape mechanism? Some poor bloke has been sat by his stereo waiting for the album to end since 1972!

30th Jan 2015, 11:26 PM		#16 REPORT
	Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator	No, the tape would have gotten tangled in the capstan by about the third trip through. As far as stopping, the machine wouldn't know the difference. The tape was spliced into a continuous loop anyway, There was a foil sensor strip or an audio cue tone that did that.

31st Jan 2015, 10:39 AM		#17 REPORT
	Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points	Trainman wrote: No, the tape would have gotten tangled in the capstan by about the third trip through. As far as stopping, the machine wouldn't know the difference. The tape was spliced into a continuous loop anyway, There was a foil sensor strip or an audio cue tone that did that. Well' I'm corrected on the width of the tape, but being quarter-inch wide would mean the actual track would be very narrow indeed(8 tracks required to give 4 stereo pairs for 4 "programmes"). As for the ending, it wouldn't until you withdrew the cartridge from the player! With each successive pass, a foil strip would trigger solenoid switching through each successive "programme". When reaching the end of Prog.4, the solenoid would kick back to Prog.1 and "here we go again, folks!" unless you press that eject button!

31st Jan 2015, 10:46 AM		#18 REPORT
	Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator	Neil Forbes wrote: As for the ending, it wouldn't until you withdrew the cartridge from the player! With each successive pass, a foil strip would trigger solenoid switching through each successive "programme". When reaching the end of Prog.4, the solenoid would kick back to Prog.1 and "here we go again, folks!" unless you press that eject button! Heck, the CD player in my car does that right now!

31st Jan 2015, 10:55 AM		#19 REPORT
	Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points	Trainman wrote: Neil Forbes wrote: As for the ending, it wouldn't until you withdrew the cartridge from the player! With each successive pass, a foil strip would trigger solenoid switching through each successive "programme". When reaching the end of Prog.4, the solenoid would kick back to Prog.1 and "here we go again, folks!" unless you press that eject button! Heck, the CD player in my car does that right now! Trainman, you must've accidentally pressed the auto-repeat button, I said you must've accidentally pressed.....(ha-ha)!

31st Jan 2015, 2:39 PM		#20 REPORT
	Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator	Player doesn't have an "auto repeat button" (What do you expect, it's a Hyundai)

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