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| UK 78rpm Dating Software |
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| 4th Dec 2017, 10:27 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3314 Points Moderator | Some of you will be aware (although many of you don't seem to know) that there are release year guides for many UK labels on site. You'll find these in the 'label biography' link at the bottom of a label listing page. Over the past five years I've spent a lot of time trying to establish when UK records were released, often to the month of release, and recently I've been working on an easy way to use the information I've collected (too much for label biogs), so I've come up with three small programs (Windows only - sorry!) to cover HMV double-sided, Edison-Bell, and Regal/Zonophone labels. In each case, just unzip the files to a new folder and run the program file. Select the series or label, enter the numeric catalogue number, and press Search. The release date, or release dates of surrounding catalogue numbers will be displayed. To uninstall just delete the folder. 1. HMV UK This program covers B,BD,C,D,E,DA,DB and POP series from 1912 to 1959. There are also details of a few short lived series. Much of the date information has been gleaned from HMV Trade Catalogues which give release dates (see 'Trade Only' catalogues in this list). Download here 2. Edison Bell This program covers Bell Disc, Winner, Velvet Face (1st and 2nd Series),Radio, and Electron. Download here 3. Regal/Zonophone This program covers the Regal and Zonophone labels, the 1933 and later Regal-Zonophone merger label, and HMV's Cinch label. Download here I'm working on similar programs for Columbia, Parlophone, HMV single Sided, and some minor labels. I decided to integrate the Edison Bell, HMV, and Regal Zonophone programs into a single program. This program also includes dating info for Coliseum, Imperial, Marathon and Tempo labels. You can download it here: Date78.zip Further info here Edited by scrough on 2nd Dec 2019, 7:29 PM |
| 8th Dec 2017, 2:50 PM | #2 REPORT | |
| JLC135 Member since Aug 2014 2703 Points Moderator | Awesome! Any chance you'll be covering label designs, too? Regarding downloads: Are there meant to be other files along with the '.exe' file in the Edison-Bell zip? It doesn't seem to work by itself. |
| 8th Dec 2017, 11:11 PM | #3 REPORT | |
| scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3314 Points Moderator | I had a series of blogs about label designs on the 78rpm community, but they were lost in a software upgrade. I've only updated and republished the Edison-Bell one [link], but I hope to do the others in the future. Sorry about the E-Bell zip - I've corrected the link in the original message  |
| 21st Dec 2017, 3:09 PM | #4 REPORT | |
 | mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1117 Points | As you posted that on the 78rpm Community website, I assume you're aware of the multitude of catalogues uploaded there, both in the Documents and Files section. The latter has many original catalogues from the collection of the late Jim Hayes, and his discographies. Anyway, good work on these programs, and many thanks for sharing. I've now been able to date George Formby (Jr)'s first records on Edison Bell Winner. It's annoying how hard original release dates for British 78rpm records are to come by. The longer the internet is around, the easier it is. But even Jim Hayes original guide to the Rex 8000 Series doesn't have the month of release for all releases. The City of London Gramophone Society has many books available which cover the various labels, though they are pricey. Many of us will also have Paul Pelletier's label guides which cover a later period. The British Library also have many original label catalogues (and many of these publications). Beyond that, there was the Gramophone and New Releases original publications, and original record company catalogues are on eBay. I've bought some at the Croydon Record Fair in the past. |
| 21st Dec 2017, 4:16 PM | #5 REPORT | |
| scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3314 Points Moderator | Theo - perhaps I could be the same person who re-posted the Jim Hayes archive and many of the catalogues in the documents?  But I wasn't aware that Jim was no longer with us, last I'd heard was he was taking things steady after a spell in hospital in April 2016.Watch out for the G&T Nov/Dec 1907 catalogue and a collection of Electrola (ie HMV in Germany) documents 1928-30 coming to 78rpmComm soon. |
| 21st Dec 2017, 6:21 PM | #6 REPORT | |
| mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1117 Points | Is that you, Wes? Ah, sorry! I just assumed that as his guides were published so long ago, and they were scanned by his nephew, he wasn't still alive. I wonder if there are any Indian Parlophone catalogues from the 1960s which might shed light on the Beatles 78s. I'm hopeful there might be something at EMI Archives which details those releases. Much of the archive does relate to their international catalogue. |
| 22nd Dec 2017, 11:34 PM | #7 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator |
mister_tmg wrote:
I wonder if there are any Indian Parlophone catalogues from the 1960s which might shed light on the Beatles 78s. I'm hopeful there might be something at EMI Archives which details those releases. Much of the archive does relate to their international catalogue.
Any glimpse into the Indian Parlophone 'DPE' series of 78s as well as the Filipino Parlophone 'PAL' and 'PAR' series of 78s would be a goldmine! The DPE series was used by The Gramophone Company in India for domestic releases that were apart from the main UK Parlophone 'R' series. Likewise the PAL and PAR series in the Philippines were used for the same purpose. In either case they could show Dave Clark 5, Herman's Hermits, Hollies etc 78 in those countries. Equally of interest apart from EMI would be Pye releases in the Philippines that seemed to issue entire LPs as a set of 78s using the PYE suffix. Amy Edited by moderator on 25th Dec 2017, 8:21 PM |
| 16th Jan 2018, 5:24 PM | #8 REPORT | |
| scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3314 Points Moderator | My computer desktop has become very cluttered with various dating programs as I work on more labels. So I decided to integrate the Edison Bell, HMV, and Regal Zonophone programs into a single program. This program also includes dating info for Coliseum, Imperial, Marathon and Tempo labels. You can download it here: Date78.zip Install as before - create a new folder and unzip the files to it. Then run Date78. The only difference is another drop down list. Select the label/manufacturer in the top drop down and then select the series/label in the lower drop down. To encourage you to create your own databases, or even your own dating program, I've written a brief manual with a user guide, and details of the database and menu configuration file format. Download here. I'd be very interested if you create a new database, etc. so please drop me a PM. Edit: Links tweaked to download zip and manual. Edited by scrough on 14th Aug 2019, 10:40 PM |
| 14th Aug 2019, 9:08 PM | #9 REPORT | |
| Bamboo Member since Apr 2019 372 Points | I am really pleased with the software provided - like 'date78'. I wonder what some of the abbreviations mean though - like 'Dra' in the Zonophone Section ? |
| 14th Aug 2019, 10:34 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3314 Points Moderator | Dra = a continuous range of catalogue numbers released on the same date or in the same date range Those database 'commands' are all explained in the manual, see my post before yours for the link. Unfortunately dropbox has changed format, so when you clicked the link you got the manual displayed rather than downloaded, and the zip contents listed. To download click the button with 3 dots at top right and choose download. Edit: I've tweaked the links so they should now download correctly  Edited by scrough on 14th Aug 2019, 10:59 PM |
| 14th Aug 2019, 11:01 PM | #11 REPORT | |
| Bamboo Member since Apr 2019 372 Points | Very good ! Thankyou |
| 15th Aug 2019, 10:26 AM | #12 REPORT | |
 | zabadak Caddacack oh da ca-caddacack, shy shy skagellack Member since Jun 2010 4117 Points |
Jock_Girl wrote:
mister_tmg wrote:
I wonder if there are any Indian Parlophone catalogues from the 1960s which might shed light on the Beatles 78s. I'm hopeful there might be something at EMI Archives which details those releases. Much of the archive does relate to their international catalogue.
Any glimpse into the Indian Parlophone 'DPE' series of 78s as well as the Filipino Parlophone 'PAL' and 'PAR' series of 78s would be a goldmine! The DPE series was used by The Gramophone Company in India for domestic releases that were apart from the main UK Parlophone 'R' series. Likewise the PAL and PAR series in the Philippines were used for the same purpose. In either case they could show Dave Clark 5, Herman's Hermits, Hollies etc 78 in those countries. Equally of interest apart from EMI would be Pye releases in the Philippines that seemed to issue entire LPs as a set of 78s using the PYE suffix. Amy  |
| 12th Jun 2024, 11:13 PM | #13 REPORT | |
| mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1117 Points | I wasn't aware that the label biographies here have release date information. When trying to find the year, I had been relying on Steven C Barr's "The almost complete 78 rpm record dating guide". I just noticed it was missing 1929 for the original Columbia 12" series. I've previously noticed that the Decca dates may be using recording, rather than release dates. |
| 13th Jun 2024, 12:00 AM | #14 REPORT | |
| scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3314 Points Moderator | I used Barr and Eddie Shaw's DATES to fill in a few places in the software where I didn't have info. I also added some date ranges from various published discographies to the label biogs. But this wasn't the right way to go, as the Barr and Shaw ranges were approximate, and many of the bigger labels didn't release things in strict number order. So the software was written to allow release months to be provided. I hit lucky and picked up Ronald Taylor's book which covered many 12" Columbias 1906-1930, with release dates. I haven't explored Decca properly yet, but the dates came from Michael Smith's book. |
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