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| The Winner Vs. Edison Bell Winner |
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| 8th Apr 2021, 6:20 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Stephen Harris Member since Mar 2021 193 Points | We have two distinct labels and discographies; one for Winner and another for Edison Bell Winner. The Winner records were produced by Edison Bell and comparing their respective discographies, the entries are exactly the same for matching catalogue numbers. Is this not just a case that these are label variants from the same manufacturer - some emphasising the Edison Bell connection and some with a picture of a racehorse? Examples: https://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/2395 (Edison Bell Winner) https://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/2395uk (Winner) https://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/2413uk (Edison Bell Winner) https://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/2413 (Winner) If so, shouldn't they be merged to give a more comprehensive collection showing both label variants where available? |
| 8th Apr 2021, 6:33 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | Redpunk SUBS Crates Are For Digging Member since Aug 2012 25322 Points Moderator | The Winner though the same label, the name and design was later as for merging this is kept to the exception rather than the rule as you could end up with the discographies looking a complete mess. The same arguments could be made for The Twin / Zonophone or Regal / Regal Zonophone which I also think would be a bad idea. |
| 8th Apr 2021, 7:01 PM | #3 REPORT | |
| Stephen Harris Member since Mar 2021 193 Points |
Redpunk wrote:
The same arguments could be made for The Twin / Zonophone or Regal / Regal Zonophone which I also think would be a bad idea.
I think the argument is a little different here as The Twin was combined into Zonophone Twin. Some Twin records were reissued but The Twin and Zonophone aren't equivalent labels. Mike Thomas wrote: "Launched in 1912, Winner was produced by J. E. Hough (The Edison Bell Co) and was a standard-sized 10" record." This is the same period as the Edison Bell Winner labels which is why I thought they were just label variants of the same record issued in parallel. However, if the "The Winner" label design is the successor to the Edison Bell Winner label then surely that is still just a label variant? e.g. I have several 'new label' Columbia records which are actually rereleases, treated as variants of the original record. |
| 8th Apr 2021, 7:19 PM | #4 REPORT | |
| Redpunk SUBS Crates Are For Digging Member since Aug 2012 25322 Points Moderator | Actually I got it the wrong way round Edison Bell Winner came later Winner was the earlier label. Personally I still prefer the way the label names are kept apart but the label history has all the info required but what do others think ? |
| 8th Apr 2021, 8:53 PM | #5 REPORT | |
 | Juke Jules SUBS Tell me he's lazy, tell me he's slow Member since Jan 2011 4138 Points Moderator | I agree it is good the way it is. The connection between the two is explained in the label biographies - please feel free to edit either if you wish to clarify further |
| 8th Apr 2021, 11:18 PM | #6 REPORT | |
| scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3428 Points Moderator | I'd like to see some connection between the two Winner labels, like a 'see also' rather than a linked pseudonym. There seem to be a lot of instances of mods removing the simplest 'see also' summary line from the label listing and inserting it into the biogs, where it has often been already stated. This doesn't help people trying to understand whats happening, or navigate easily. Redpunk commented about merging kept to the exception rather than the rule as you could end up with the discographies looking a complete mess. So why do we have the mishmash Edison Bell in our labels, which is a company not a label. According to the list, there are only 5 true 'Edison Bell' only discs, which I suspect are all mis-listings or unattributed promos, but we end up with a 12 page (~600 items) label listing which has ignored Winner and 'The Bell'. I've tried to make it as useful as possible, but I'd much prefer it wasn't there. During the first quarter of the 1900s, many companies tried to disassociate their new (often cheaper) labels from their main labels. Examples Winner, Zonophone, Cinch, Regal, etc... |
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