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| Why Is Old Vinyl Better Than New Vinyl? |
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| 9th Jan 2014, 4:48 AM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Lee Wrecker If you can't dig me, you can't dig nothin' Member since Nov 2013 2282 Points | Like many of you I still buy new and old records but have been disappointed with claims by the "new" record industry that they are producing a superior product. More often than not I find these claims i.e. 180 gr vinyl produces better sound and less noise to be completely baseless. Even more infuriating is the trend to re-issue vinyl from digital rather than analogue masters - the latest batch of Beatles releases for instance. I can't help but think it is all a cynical marketing ploy to keep LP prices higher than CD prices but when CD's were introduced they were much dearer than supposedly sub-standard LP's. My point is an old album from an analogue master is (nearly) always superior to new one from a digital source no matter how good the rest of the production is. Bells and whistles don't necessarily make a better product. Lee |
| 9th Jan 2014, 10:09 AM | #2 REPORT | |
 | Orbiting Cat Member since Jan 2008 1183 Points Administrator | I too don't understand digitally remastered LPs. Once it's been digitised, you might as well keep it in that medium. Isn't it like buying a CD that has been converted to vinyl? |
| 9th Jan 2014, 9:15 PM | #3 REPORT | |
 | carryonsidney a happy disposition is an omnious sign.... Member since Feb 2010 1707 Points Moderator | actually it smacks of an industry comprised of people too technically deficent to know why making vinyl from digital files is backwards? |
| 11th Jan 2014, 2:26 PM | #4 REPORT | |
 | TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | Glad to see it's not just me wondering about that then. When the Beatles' albums were remastered a couple of years back, it made sense - source material analogue, transfered to digital masters for use with CD. But then to use the digital masters to press to vinyl again seemed bizarre. Surely the original analogues could be used directly to vinyl, thereby cutting out a whole extra generation of copying? I'm no expert, but it just seems odd to me. |
| 11th Jan 2014, 3:38 PM | #5 REPORT | |
 | scrough🍰 No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3429 Points Moderator | Depends what we mean by 'analogue masters'. If that means magnetic tape then its liable to wear, stretch, crinkle, etc and is decomposing all the time. Digitising that is a way to stop things getting worse as time passes. Isn't it like buying a CD that has been converted to vinyl? No. CDs are a lot less accurate reproduction - they are only made to 16bit resolution. A digital remaster will be made to 32 bit resolution, and that's about 64,000 times as accurate. |
| 12th Jan 2014, 9:03 AM | #6 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points |
scrough wrote:
Depends what we mean by 'analogue masters'. If that means magnetic tape then its liable to wear, stretch, crinkle, etc and is decomposing all the time. Digitising that is a way to stop things getting worse as time passes.
Nevertheless, introducing a newly-made digital stage can't improve the fidelity, surely. Maybe in 50 years the tape will have deteriorated, but the digital remasters are taken from the tape as it is now. They already have the polished up digital rematers anyway, for the CD releases - so it's all preserved for the future. Edited by TopPopper on 12th Jan 2014, 9:05 AM |
| 13th Jan 2014, 7:44 AM | #7 REPORT | |
| scrough🍰 No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3429 Points Moderator |
TopPopper wrote:
Nevertheless, introducing a newly-made digital stage can't improve the fidelity, surely.
Our knowledge and understanding of the limitations of recording equipment is growing all the time, so improved source fidelity is a future possibility. TopPopper wrote:
Maybe in 50 years the tape will have deteriorated ....
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| 13th Jan 2014, 12:01 PM | #8 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points |
scrough wrote:
TopPopper wrote:
Maybe in 50 years the tape will have deteriorated ....
I know. The point I was making is that digitising will prevent further deterioration but won't add anything to what we already have, as of today. |
| 15th Jan 2014, 10:44 PM | #9 REPORT | |
| carryonsidney a happy disposition is an omnious sign.... Member since Feb 2010 1707 Points Moderator | Re: about the actual tape, without naming names or such - a very major league record company has been routinely remaking master tapes for more than ten years now. The problem with old tape is that not only does the iron magnetic track deterioate with age but the actual tape itself decays. As a result many major bands have had their original master tapes archived and have new master tapes dubbed from the originals. Obviously we've all heard about disappearing master tapes, the usual reason for disposal is because they simply fell to bits. Its a similar problem the BFI deal with old film, the tape literally falling to bits with age. Amusingly digital archives arent future proof either, so the whole dubbing process will repeated everytime computer technology moves into a new chipset. Edited by carryonsidney on 15th Jan 2014, 10:47 PM |
| 17th Jan 2014, 11:01 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| ady_lister Member since Aug 2012 826 Points | If you remember early 80s / 90s Cds used to have that AAD or DDD symbols on the back. Analogue used in recording , Analogue used in Mastering , Digital used in Transcription. Its not so much a case of quality of the Master Tape, its the care taken in Converting it to Digital (ie CD) playback. As for recent vinyl, I've been aghast at some of the quality. 'Back to Black' Counting Crows 'August & Everything After' was the worst thing I ever heard in my life. Then I checked some forums and it was taken from a CD Master and then got withdrawn by the label due to non-fill. Sundazed 'Fantastic Expedition Of Dillard & Clark' sounded ok , but then I got the original brown A&M and it blew my mind how much better it sounded. |
| 21st Jan 2014, 11:49 PM | #11 REPORT | |
| scrough🍰 No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3429 Points Moderator |
carryonsidney wrote:
... Amusingly digital archives arent future proof either, so the whole dubbing process will repeated everytime computer technology moves into a new chipset.
|
| 29th Jul 2014, 3:19 PM | #12 REPORT | |
 | Felonious Member since Feb 2009 3147 Points Moderator | Interesting article on contemporary vinyl pressing plants. Tough realities behind vinyl's come back |
| 29th Jul 2014, 4:28 PM | #13 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | Something just 'feels' wrong about these modern vinyl pressings. There is a certain fakeness about them. Can't really explain it -- but they just don't feel right. Maybe its this attitude of 'let's put it out on vinyl just to be cool', especially as practiced by Jack White. Amy |
| 29th Jul 2014, 4:29 PM | #14 REPORT | |
 | nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator | In fairness to Jack White, in spite of his obvious eccentricities, I do believe his fondness for vinyl is genuine. ...but then you never can tell with that lad.  |
| 29th Jul 2014, 5:15 PM | #15 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator |
nboldock wrote:
In fairness to Jack White, in spite of his obvious eccentricities, I do believe his fondness for vinyl is genuine.
...but then you never can tell with that lad. I agree -- but with him I get a sense of "I suffered for my art, now its your turn, too"  Amy |
| 29th Jul 2014, 10:08 PM | #16 REPORT | |
 | zabadak Caddacack oh da ca-caddacack, shy shy skagellack Member since Jun 2010 4156 Points |
Jock_Girl wrote:
nboldock wrote:
In fairness to Jack White, in spite of his obvious eccentricities, I do believe his fondness for vinyl is genuine.
...but then you never can tell with that lad. I agree -- but with him I get a sense of "I suffered for my art, now its your turn, too" Amy The man is a genius but he has the air of someone with too much money to be able to spend it!  |
| 30th Jul 2014, 5:30 PM | #17 REPORT | |
 | Dr Doom SUBS I wanna eat an artichoke once in a while Member since Feb 2008 25247 Points Administrator | It's funny that the media keep trying to convinve us that vinyl is 'Cool' I can't think of one single person I've met with a collection of more than 1,000 'vinyls  ' who was in any way cool and I include myself in that! |
| 30th Jul 2014, 8:01 PM | #18 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator |
Dr Doom wrote:
I can't think of one single person I've met with a collection of more than 1,000 'vinyls ' who was in any way cool and I include myself in that!That may be true -- but my partner Sparky says that I look good in vinyl  Jury is still out on shellac, though Amy |
| 30th Jul 2014, 11:49 PM | #19 REPORT | |
| zabadak Caddacack oh da ca-caddacack, shy shy skagellack Member since Jun 2010 4156 Points |
Jock_Girl wrote:
Dr Doom wrote:
I can't think of one single person I've met with a collection of more than 1,000 'vinyls ' who was in any way cool and I include myself in that!That may be true -- but my partner Sparky says that I look good in vinyl Jury is still out on shellac, though Amy Pix!!!  |
| 31st Jul 2014, 8:19 AM | #20 REPORT | |
| nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator | Steady now |
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