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| 29th Nov 2014, 12:01 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Is the record industry slipping back into old bad habits? With the release of Pink Floyd's new (and final) album, I was greatly excited like many, but when it became available for pre-order, and I saw the price of iton amazon (and elsewhere) at £27, I thought: well, "I'm not paying that!". ...Especially as it is, essentially, and by the band's own admission, half an album. I thought I'd wait for all the hoo-ha to settle, and the price to drop, but rather, and in spite of the established fact of it being the best selling album vinyl of the year by one of the biggest bands in existence (not short of a bob or two!), it went up! Through £28, then even hitting £32 at one point! It's sad that Pink Floyd should go out on such a sour note as far as I'm concerned... I only need The Division Bell and Endless River on Vinyl to have a complete set of studio albums, but it looks like I'll have to wait. But beyond my own gripe, it seems that this is the way of things with all new vinyl, with prices out stripping the value of rarer older, and original albums. Everyone knows now that Vinyl is back on the up, and I feel the industry is getting back into it's old exploitative ways again, recalling the time when a brand new CD for a popular album in the nineties was pushing £15...allowing for inflation over time that was a lot of money to spend on music then. Unjustified if you ask me, and you'd think they'd learn their lesson that they could easily kill off any momentum in their business by fleecing the customers again. What do people here think? ... I know I'm a tight-wad, but we all love a bargain, or at the very least, a fair price, and after all, it was probably the financial and economic reasons like this that initiated the current resurgence in the first place in the wake of recession. |
| 29th Nov 2014, 12:18 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | Charlie Chalk Self praise is no recommendation. Member since Oct 2011 45189 Points Moderator | I suspect that the companies charge so much for vinyl as the majority of buyers are vinyl fanatics, rather than just casual buyers. It's easy to abuse the fanatical fans. |
| 29th Nov 2014, 2:15 PM | #3 REPORT | |
 | Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator | To put it very bluntly. To my way of thinking, there is NO WAY ANY new vinyl release is worth more than $ 20,00 (That's about 15 pounds) Most regular issues should be about half that, which is pretty much the current going rate here for a standard CD I do have to wonder how much of that is the actual record company and how much is speculators. Do we know what the actual cover price will be? |
| 29th Nov 2014, 2:31 PM | #4 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Well I don't know about the actual vinyl pressing costs, but the cover is only paper or card... and from what I've seen from people's comments about the quality of a lot of new covers, it's very cheap looking. ... added together, I still struggle to see how they can justify that kind of price, and especially if it's the likes of Pink Floyd with a title that has huge pre-order sales. Maybe my understanding of industrial practice and the free market economy needs refreshing, but shouldn't the attendant production costs of an item for sale go down as the sales numbers go up... due to mass manufacture (bulk buy of materials etc.) so you should surely sell such an item at a lower price, in order to sell even more, and at the same time make more profit as a smaller proportion of the cover price goes to costs? Pure greed. |
| 2nd Dec 2014, 4:53 AM | #5 REPORT | |
 | Carouselambra SUBS Classic Hard Rock Collector Member since Sep 2012 608 Points | Could it have something to do with the fact that all the new vinyl is pressed on 180g? I paid $24 for "Houses of the Holy" (my only 180g vinyl and I bought it just to get the promotional items that came with a Zeppelin purchase since I had bought the CD's earlier in the month from a different retailer) which was priced similar to all the other new vinyl on the rack which all happened to be pressed on 180g vinyl (at least here in the states). Are the new UK albums pressed on 180g? |
| 2nd Dec 2014, 8:00 AM | #6 REPORT | |
 | Dr Doom SUBS I wanna eat an artichoke once in a while Member since Feb 2008 25248 Points Administrator | Poorly pressed on 180gram vinyl in many cases. |
| 2nd Dec 2014, 12:43 PM | #7 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Yeah, I thought part of the purpose of 180gram vinyl was to satisfy the audiophile market... along with putting a single album's worth of music (in the case of older albums being reissued which you know would fit on one disc because they've done it before!) on two discs, and in gatefold sleeves. And while I understand the reasoning.... that a thicker piece of vinyl is more stable and the action of the stylus on the record does not reverberate throughout the vinyl and back up into the stylus as resonant feedback (Spreading it over 2 LPs also allows the grooves to be spread further apart so that the ridge of vinyl between grooves is also thicker, and reverb cancelling/absorbing in this way laterally too). It seems, from what people generally say, that there isn't any improvement in sound quality as intended... and in many cases people seem decidedly underwhelmed. Maybe they've just lost the art of pressing adequate microgrooves the way they used to, and it affords the chance to go nuts with the packaging. On my wants list is a vinyl copy of The Bluetones: Expecting To Fly, one of my favourite albums, and they don't seem to have re-issued it yet, but I might just wait for an original copy to turn up in the boot-fairs or Charity shops (Would even pay a good price in a record store for one), but even if it was re-issued in the manner mentioned earlier, I might not buy it if it's paying too much for too much unnecessary packaging and discs for inferior sound quality. |
| 2nd Dec 2014, 5:58 PM | #8 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | I'm a shellac girl, myself, but this whole twist on vinyl what with high price re-issues is a bit ridiculous. I need only look at the Beatles' RSD Long Tall Sally EP reissue as an example of gouging and a money grab. What REAL value is there to this disc. Its not a new tracks and not something we haven't heard (or bought) a zillion times. Plus its not even authentic as it says 'Calderstone/ Universal' on it. As far as the 'cut from the original analogue tapes' -- big deal. I may be off base but unless the tracks are re-mix and then released, any thing released is like that. Does this really justify US$12.95 for a 4 song vinyl EP? I think not. Bottom line -- money grab. If I really wanted this EP -- I'd search out an original Amy PS -- don't even get me started on Jack White and his silliness |
| 2nd Dec 2014, 6:49 PM | #9 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | Hmm --while on my Beatle's kick -- if they REALLY wanted to do something special - -then an RSD reissue of the Indian 78 of Love Me Do would be the kitty-cat's nightgown! But then its easy to make fake 78s like the RSD Beach Boy's one, I guess Amy |
| 3rd Dec 2014, 11:48 AM | #10 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | New stuff on CD from now on for me then I think. So, Jock_Girl.... ...tell me about Jack White's Silliness.  |
| 4th Dec 2014, 10:11 PM | #11 REPORT | |
 | George Slv This comment marked as Spam. Please press Not Spam Member since Aug 2012 498 Points |
Jock_Girl wrote:
As far as the 'cut from the original analogue tapes' -- big deal. I may be off base but unless the tracks are re-mix and then released, any thing released is like that.
My default assumption is that current vinyl is made from digital masters. That includes LPs from the 1980s. I just don't know what percentage. 'cut from the original analogue tapes' is a BIG DEAL. I can't stop laughing at seeing Elvis reissue LPs made from digital. |
| 8th Jan 2015, 3:06 PM | #12 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points | Seems to me a lot of the lessons about manufacturing vinyl LPs(or singles and EPs too, for that matter) have been forgotten! As for me, the very last CD I ever bought was a Johnny Rivers compilation. These days I make my own CDs, design and print my own cards for them, and, because I use inkjet-printable CD blanks, I design my own labels using the software for that purpose which came with my printer. Would I sell them? No flippin' way! I put far too much effort into them to just palm them off! But I do put compilations together for close friends. And they won't sell them either! |
| 9th Jan 2015, 3:16 AM | #13 REPORT | |
 | The_Vinyl_Junkie SUBS My body is on the diminishing streak. Member since Dec 2011 8082 Points Moderator |
Neil Forbes wrote:
Seems to me a lot of the lessons about manufacturing vinyl LPs(or singles and EPs too, for that matter) have been forgotten! As for me, the very last CD I ever bought was a Johnny Rivers compilation. These days I make my own CDs, design and print my own cards for them, and, because I use inkjet-printable CD blanks, I design my own labels using the software for that purpose which came with my printer. Would I sell them? No flippin' way! I put far too much effort into them to just palm them off! But I do put compilations together for close friends. And they won't sell them either!
The same with myself, Neil. The only thing I have done is produce CD's (in small quantities) for two local dance teachers which they market directly to the public. |
| 9th Jan 2015, 1:43 PM | #14 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Just recently bought this: Radiohead - The Bends ...Sounds great, and is not 180g, but the same press as the original (Some sleeve alterations)... better than the CD, as the vinyl separates the instruments in what is quite a densely arranged sound. Only £12.99 too!!!!!! but In HMV where I bought it, the racks were, from what I could see, almost all 180g reissues, with the double albums (Or double discs of single album originals) being very heavy indeed. I could only see my copy of The Bends, and strangely, The Rolling Stones Exile on Main St. (Although a double album) among them which seemed to be of a standard press quality, and appropriately priced. I think it was under £20 for the Exile, and I was tempted to get it so I could leave the original alone (I am playing it a lot now in my new vinyl days, and now regard it as being perhaps their best album, or nearly so... it's giving Let It Bleed a run for it's money!). Just one observation from this experience though: The racks were STUFFED with vinyl, and had several people grabbing ARMFULS of new vinyl each in front of them (Hundreds of pounds worth at a time ...HMV must have cleared £3000 worth of sales in only the time I was in the store!) so it seems that it is not an illusion or hype... the vinyl revival is well and truly happening! ... Gonna need a bigger Vinyl section! |
| 9th Jan 2015, 2:10 PM | #15 REPORT | |
 | nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
Just recently bought this:
Radiohead - The Bends ...Sounds great, and is not 180g, but the same press as the original (Some sleeve alterations)... better than the CD, as the vinyl separates the instruments in what is quite a densely arranged sound. Only £12.99 too!!!!!! but In HMV where I bought it, the racks were, from what I could see, almost all 180g reissues, with the double albums (Or double discs of single album originals) being very heavy indeed. I could only see my copy of The Bends, and strangely, The Rolling Stones Exile on Main St. (Although a double album) among them which seemed to be of a standard press quality, and appropriately priced. I think it was under £20 for the Exile, and I was tempted to get it so I could leave the original alone (I am playing it a lot now in my new vinyl days, and now regard it as being perhaps their best album, or nearly so... it's giving Let It Bleed a run for it's money!). Just one observation from this experience though: The racks were STUFFED with vinyl, and had several people grabbing ARMFULS of new vinyl each in front of them (Hundreds of pounds worth at a time ...HMV must have cleared £3000 worth of sales in only the time I was in the store!) so it seems that it is not an illusion or hype... the vinyl revival is well and truly happening! ... Gonna need a bigger Vinyl section! The vinyl section in my local HMV (Hull) has doubled in size over the past 6-12 months. Still not huge but pretty decent. I bought Astral Weeks from there for my missus for Xmas (yes, 180gm reissue). |
| 9th Jan 2015, 2:14 PM | #16 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
the vinyl revival is well and truly happening!
Now if only there was a 78 rpm revival!  Amy |
| 9th Jan 2015, 2:59 PM | #17 REPORT | |
| nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator |
Jock_Girl wrote:
Magic Marmalade wrote:
the vinyl revival is well and truly happening!
Now if only there was a 78 rpm revival! Amy Have you listened to this... Not sure if this will work where you are... |
| 9th Jan 2015, 4:32 PM | #18 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | I think there may well be Amy, because my reading of the situation is this: That this whole revival in general was sparked by the economic crash/continuous-unending-recession causing people through necessity to dig great hordes of old vinyl and CDs etc. out of the loft to sell, and make ends meet... But realising, as they did so, that they could therefore buy a lot this stuff through charity shops and second hand at boot fairs/garage sales etc., paying just a pound (dollar) in many cases for whole albums, whereas this will now only buy you one single track downloaded (I've saved a fortune by doing this!), and for greater quality recordings in hard copy media. So people begin to ask themselves why pay more for less, and give my musical assets away for a song (Pun!). From this, it doesn't take a genius to think, well, what if another big crash happens, and I've already sold all my stuff in the last recession? ...buggered. But aside from the monetary aspects, there is going to be the crushing realisation that there is a genuine civil rights issue waiting to happen here, when people have sold all their own copies in favour of streaming, and the streaming company you subscribe to goes bust (mark my words, this will happen one day to some such company), you now not only do not possess the music, you don't even have access to it! Many, I'm sure (Myself included) feel very uneasy about handing over the keys to the musical kingdom to a corporation, with regards to control over when and where I listen, and to what (And to keep paying over and over again for the privilege). Not quite the liberating and empowering experience that the technology promised is it... cultural servitude for pure commercial gain. But as for the formats themselves... having reached the end of technological history so to speak (Apple have no new ideas as regards to form factor that is as big a leap from the ipod to the iPhone, or the iPhone to the ipad, because it's gone as far as it can go, now it's just improvement of product, or variations on a theme(Or crappy smart watches that nobody needs or wants)), I think people are appreciating each format as an art form in it's own right, rather than simply an advance over the old: In the same way that Watercolours never rendered the use of oils as obsolete, or acrylics replaced oils or sculpture... it's a question of taste, which now exists outside of fashion or trends set by the technological entrepreneurs of the day. So why shouldn't 78s be their own art form, appreciated for their own inherent qualities rather than simply the period of history they represent? I see people buying tapes, reel to reels, VHS, even beta max in the charity shops now, it's a matter of time before they get round to buying up the stacks of 78s just sitting there awaiting discovery. In a nut shell, I think the general underlying mood is to stick it to the man as it were by saying: "Were not playing the hip and trendy techno literati , must have-latest thing -game any more... It's all about doing you're own thing now!" The past is the future... we're just waiting for the present to catch up with that idea. Long live the Revolution! (Diatribe over... normal service shall now be resumed. ) |
| 10th Jan 2015, 12:20 AM | #19 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | And to the point of whatever is new is old .. how about this: Vinyl Subscription Service Like The Netflix Of Records, But You Can Buy What You Get New Record Service VNYL Distributes LPs Like Netflix Je suis non-impressed (with my fake french being about about as pretentious as the service offered) Amy --I am a grouch |
| 10th Jan 2015, 3:25 PM | #20 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Kind of asking for trouble that isn't it? I've always thought the rigours of even the most careful packaging for mailing through ebay must take some kind of toll to at least a proportion of the items sent, contributing to the scarcity of higher quality copies of any given title... but these are relatively infrequent exchanges compared to a rental market, where you've got to be talking about serious losses through damage, theft and mistreatment of items which cannot bear the stress. Perhaps I'll send them a list of what I've got in my collection that they should source and make available for rental, so they can drive the value of my stuff up! (My god I'm in a very money oriented mood today!) ((beginning to dislike myself because of it)) |
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Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45cat for 7" singles : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds