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too many copies of LZ 1. Difference spotting   


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  26th Feb 2015, 2:23 PM#1  REPORT  
deepinder cheema

Member since Jan 2013
29 Points
switched disc in first sleeve


From his listing:

588171 A//1 (SECOND 8 IS WRITTEN ABOVE ) ; SIDE 2 - 588171 B//4. LABELS HAVE NO 'SUPERHYPE CREDIT'.

588171 A//1 (SECOND 8 IS WRITTEN ABOVE ) ; SIDE 2 - 588171 B//4. LABELS HAVE NO 'SUPERHYPE CREDIT'.

Just by matrix alone it looks like a late pressing. Also the type face of Led Zeppelin on label is post LZ 4 so after Nov 1971


  26th Feb 2015, 3:20 PM#2  REPORT  
Magic Marmalade

If you're not lost... It's not an adventure!
Member since Jun 2014
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I was under the impression that the Superhype credit, while turning up briefly in the orange printed sleeve, was the only one in the turquoise sleeve (?)


  27th Feb 2015, 2:55 AM#3  REPORT  
deepinder cheema

Member since Jan 2013
29 Points
Magic Marmalade wrote:
I was under the impression that the Superhype credit, while turning up briefly in the orange printed sleeve, was the only one in the turquoise sleeve (?)

I too am of the same opinion. Look at the blog by Neil Priddey on his research into Superhype which was a company set up by Jimmy Page. There seems to be 2 variations of the Superhype label. One in which the publishing numbers are misnumbered and the corrected Superhype label in which the numbering is correct. There is a so called 'Re-issue' of the turquoise sleeve LZ 1 in which 'they' have copied the buggered up label. So it is a very poor bootleg


  27th Feb 2015, 11:55 AM#4  REPORT  
Magic Marmalade

If you're not lost... It's not an adventure!
Member since Jun 2014
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I thought they reissued the turquoise one recently.

Although this is one of those records that I'd probably pass out on the shop floor if I found it in a record bin, like the solid blue triangle Dark Side Of The Moon, a Pink Scroll Genesis, Presley or Sex Pistols debuts, Please Please Me Stereo Gold or Butcher, I wonder, is there actually any difference in sound or vinyl quality with the turquoise sleeves and Superhype labelled ones over the "standard" orange?

...I know it's significance as regards to the earliness of press, and therefore being closer to the original tapes generationally, but is the difference that vast, as to warrant the extra bucks?


  27th Feb 2015, 11:46 PM#5  REPORT  
deepinder cheema

Member since Jan 2013
29 Points
Magic Marmalade wrote:
I thought they reissued the turquoise one recently.

Although this is one of those records that I'd probably pass out on the shop floor if I found it in a record bin, like the solid blue triangle Dark Side Of The Moon, a Pink Scroll Genesis, Presley or Sex Pistols debuts, Please Please Me Stereo Gold or Butcher, I wonder, is there actually any difference in sound or vinyl quality with the turquoise sleeves and Superhype labelled ones over the "standard" orange?

...I know it's significance as regards to the earliness of press, and therefore being closer to the original tapes generationally, but is the difference that vast, as to warrant the extra bucks?
Why would they reissue the Turquoise lettered LP with a defunct publishing house credit and a mistake on numbering ? It is not a reissue but a bootleg. Yes the difference is so vast that it is more than money, otherwise why not buy a hard back copy of Moby Dick from your local bookshop and not the first edition, after all it has the same words.


  28th Feb 2015, 10:57 AM#6  REPORT  
Magic Marmalade

If you're not lost... It's not an adventure!
Member since Jun 2014
3745 Points
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Well this is my point entirely...

If I'm buying Moby Dick First Edition for historical reasons, as a first edition collector, then yes, I see the need to pay the money, but for literary purposes: content... the extra money may not be worth paying for the same quality.

In the same way, I can understand a Led Zeppelin collector, who wants a complete set paying for the turquouise lettered sleeve, and Superhype labels, but from a purely audiophile point of view, as someone who may simply want the earliest possible edition of this particular album to maximise the audio benefit of the vinyl by having it closer to the original recordings, is the difference so very vast between the vinyl in the turquoise sleeve, and the vinyl in the first orange lettered sleeves (released pretty soon after as I understand... the brevity of release for the turquoise lettered sleeves being the reason why they are so rare)?

Are you getting the same words in this turquoise Led Zep book as an Orange Lettered Led Zep Book?

Are they the same record just with different labels and sleeve, with no appreciable difference in sound?

I notice the spindle hole on the label in the one listed on ebay seems to have seen no action, so to speak, while the sleeve looks, to my admittedly untrained eye, genuine enough (usual and expected wear and ageing).


  28th Feb 2015, 11:31 AM#7  REPORT  
Magic Marmalade

If you're not lost... It's not an adventure!
Member since Jun 2014
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Another thought occurs...


If, let's say, you came across a turqouise lettered sleeve, but no record, that would be exciting enough in itself wouldn't it?

And as you would be even more unlikey to ever come across a Superhype record without sleeve than you would to find a complete Turquoise lettered/Superhype album... what would you do with it if you wanted to sell it?

Would you just sell the sleeve by itself, house a newer record in it and simply state in the listing that you're offereing it this way, or try to sell it as a complete original?

It could well e the case here... but that's not to say that the person offering it knew of the incongruity when they bought it (switched by the person they themselves bought it from), or, to entertain a new possibility.... that this copy was made right on the cusp of the transition between the Truquoise and orange sleeves, and the new labels... that new labelled record was placed in remaining stock of sleeves.

(See Pink Floyd: The Wall, where I have two copies, one, a single piece constructed first press sleeve, and another, which is first press in all respects except te two piece constuction of the sleeve... a moment of transition, if you will, between the first and second presses).

That nobody has ever seen this Led Zep record in this sleeve may not be indicative of the possibility of it's existence, as such a cross over point would necessarily be so brief as to have only a very few copies like it.

Just putting that out there (though the labels on that listing do look too clean and crisp to me still... and this doesn't match the sleeve wear)


  1st Mar 2015, 9:34 AM#8  REPORT  
Fokeman

I used to have a good memory but now I can't re
Member since May 2011
5096 Points
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Nah, this guy had a good quality sleeve and a knackered record, bought another record and thought he could match them up. He was just trying to make £750 from the sleeve with a decent record in it. Only the experts will know what he has done and not every oligarch will go to the trouble of checking it out before parting with the cash!
Magic Marmalade wrote:

That nobody has ever seen this Led Zep record in this sleeve may not be indicative of the possibility of it's existence, as such a cross over point would necessarily be so brief as to have only a very few copies like it.



  1st Mar 2015, 12:30 PM#9  REPORT  
Magic Marmalade

If you're not lost... It's not an adventure!
Member since Jun 2014
3745 Points
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Poor Mr Abramovich! :grin:

Part of me (for a moment) does feel sorry for someone who lists something like this, as it may be intentional, or an honest belief that what they are selling is all whole and complete and as it oughta be....

..but this feeling evaporates when you see the price tag... they know at least it's worth money, so must have an inkling of why it is so valuable (as this person has in his description).

So they must know that anyone to whom this will appeal, and is being asked to part with this kind of cash is going to know all about it, or find such info.

It is very frustrating when only cursory descriptions are given on high value listings too... I mean, if you're selling a Joe Dolce single or some such, which is dime a dozen, then just state the obvious by all means... but I think the more expensive it is, the more expansive the potential purchaser has a right to expect you to be in the description.

More bucks... more details please!

(Photos especially: Matrix number snaps, multi angle shots spine close ups, spindle hole, labels even inside the cover!)


  1st Mar 2015, 1:05 PM#10  REPORT  
Neil Forbes

Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me!
Member since Dec 2014
252 Points
Magic Marmalade wrote:
Poor Mr Abramovich! :grin:

Part of me (for a moment) does feel sorry for someone who lists something like this, as it may be intentional, or an honest belief that what they are selling is all whole and complete and as it oughta be....

..but this feeling evaporates when you see the price tag... they know at least it's worth money, so must have an inkling of why it is so valuable (as this person has in his description).

So they must know that anyone to whom this will appeal, and is being asked to part with this kind of cash is going to know all about it, or find such info.

It is very frustrating when only cursory descriptions are given on high value listings too... I mean, if you're selling a Joe Dolce single or some such, which is dime a dozen, then just state the obvious by all means... but I think the more expensive it is, the more expansive the potential purchaser has a right to expect you to be in the description.

More bucks... more details please!

(Photos especially: Matrix number snaps, multi angle shots spine close ups, spindle hole, labels even inside the cover!)
MM, funny you mentioned Joe Dolce there, you mean to say that "Shadduppa You-Face" single actually made it to Britain? Was it issued on PRT, perhaps?(since PYE Electrical rescinded the record company's right to use the trademark around 1977 or 1978, the record company had to come up with a new identity and logo, result: PRT = Precision Records & Tapes).


  1st Mar 2015, 1:29 PM#11  REPORT  
Magic Marmalade

If you're not lost... It's not an adventure!
Member since Jun 2014
3745 Points
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No, it's on the blue Epic label (check 45cat).... It is permanently imprinted on my brain, as it was of course, one of those odd super hits that never... ever... EVER... went away or left you alone!

These Dolce singles are on of those staple, or mainstay features of record bins in Charity stores and boot fair boxes everywhere I go....

...it's like it's stalking me!

Yes, Joe Dolce, Al Martino, and The Sound Of Music seem to be on tour together in the bargain bins of Britain.... always people want rid, but no takers, so they just keep appearing, like an unsettling rash in a sensitive area.

"Hello!... nice to see you again!"

they say.

"Aaaarrgh... Leave me alone!!!! you're haunting my brain now like some kind of waking nightmare!"

I feel like saying.


  1st Mar 2015, 3:40 PM#12  REPORT  
Neil Forbes

Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me!
Member since Dec 2014
252 Points
Magic Marmalade wrote:
No, it's on the blue Epic label (check 45cat).... It is permanently imprinted on my brain, as it was of course, one of those odd super hits that never... ever... EVER... went away or left you alone!

These Dolce singles are on of those staple, or mainstay features of record bins in Charity stores and boot fair boxes everywhere I go....

...it's like it's stalking me!

Yes, Joe Dolce, Al Martino, and The Sound Of Music seem to be on tour together in the bargain bins of Britain.... always people want rid, but no takers, so they just keep appearing, like an unsettling rash in a sensitive area.

"Hello!... nice to see you again!"

they say.

"Aaaarrgh... Leave me alone!!!! you're haunting my brain now like some kind of waking nightmare!"

I feel like saying.
That sounds like VHS copies of "Ghost" that keep "haunting" the second-hand shops that flog old books, records and videos!


  1st Mar 2015, 4:52 PM#13  REPORT  
Magic Marmalade

If you're not lost... It's not an adventure!
Member since Jun 2014
3745 Points
Moderator
Absolutely!

What a fickle bunch people are... can't get enough of something one minute, dump it en masse the next.

Why is it you never see anyone make these records into clocks or ashtrays... but always pick a stonker to break your heart with. There's a pink scroll Genesis album on ebay at the mo with a clock stuck through it!

I almost wept, and as Auden would say:

"For the love of God people...Stop The Clocks!"


  2nd Mar 2015, 1:29 PM#14  REPORT  
Neil Forbes

Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me!
Member since Dec 2014
252 Points
Magic Marmalade wrote:
Absolutely!

What a fickle bunch people are... can't get enough of something one minute, dump it en masse the next.

Why is it you never see anyone make these records into clocks or ashtrays... but always pick a stonker to break your heart with. There's a pink scroll Genesis album on ebay at the mo with a clock stuck through it!

I almost wept, and as Auden would say:

"For the love of God people...Stop The Clocks!"
Making a clock out of a record, if you used an Australian Calendar(Festival's budget line) label issue, you'd have the time and the date! :laugh:


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