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| 15th Aug 2015, 7:10 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator | I'm just looking at the record here which has an American pressed record which had the sleeve printed by the distributor in Canada. This american issue was distributed around the world but my feeling is that it is an essentially American issue of a UK album. Shanachie's registered addres is in New Jersey, USA. The record was, quite ironically, sold in the UK anyway but was not the UK pressing. Unlike other major league labels who have had an office in every country, Shanachie has only ever had an office in the USA so it would be easier and more simple to put all Shanachie records under the USA and state that the cover was printed in Canada in the notes. IMHO. I don't believe Boot Records actually did the pressing in Canada. |
| 16th Aug 2015, 8:19 AM | #2 REPORT | |
 | nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator | I agree it would be sensible to list them all under USA . We have done this with independent labels before (see Glitterhouse for example). |
| 16th Aug 2015, 8:58 AM | #3 REPORT | |
 | TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | The principle we use is not where the record was made, but where it was sold. If the US-made LP was sleeved and retailed in Canada, then for me it's a Canadian release. I'm sure many of us have UK CDs in our collections made in places like Czechoslovakia and Netherlands etc, but they weren't for release in those countries. |
| 16th Aug 2015, 11:29 AM | #4 REPORT | |
 | PhilMH Member since Jan 2012 1055 Points | I think that it is a US release, as Shanachie was ome of a few US labels (e.g. Rounder and Takoma) that had all their jackets printed in Canada. |
| 16th Aug 2015, 4:37 PM | #5 REPORT | |
 | ppint. Member since Aug 2012 6397 Points | if shanachie were to acquire official yeurppean, asian & australasian distributors, and to acquire (or have acquired) worldwide rights (or at least, rights in some of those extra-merkin'n'canadadian markets) to some records & cds on their catalogue, i suspect their releases would make something of this availability. . . sfaics their cd catalogue is released to the trade in merkia, canadada & semi-independent que?bec by the three arms of e1 entertainment (formerly known as koch), and only incidentally ah, "leak out" into other recognised, distinct territories. (i don't know whether, how & in how many pieces distribution in spanish & portuguese-speaking south america occurs *anyway* - it seems to involve, or have involved, both spain and switzerland (somehow) - let alone, whether anyone formally distributes shanachie's records & cds in the sub?-continent: "let's burn that bridge when we come to it"...) |
| 16th Aug 2015, 10:22 PM | #6 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator |
TopPopper wrote:
The principle we use is not where the record was made, but where it was sold.
You've hit the nail on the head. This record was sold in the UK. But that's irrelevant here. It's an American release of a record which was issued originally in the UK on the Highway label. The American company (not Canadian) bought the rights to issue the record in the North American continent and pressed the record in the USA. To encourage sales in Canada they sent the records to Boot and allowed them to print their (distribution) address on the back of the cover. BUT... this was an American release. Shanachie is American and this is on the Shanachie label. Splitting the USA label into Canadian printed covers and USA printed covers is ridiculous in my opinion. Why not say this is a BOOT label issue? Because it isn't a Boot label issue, it's a Shanachie issue. Nuff said... |
| 16th Aug 2015, 11:39 PM | #7 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | When the American company sent the records to Boot and allowed them to print their (distribution) address on the back of the cover... they authorised a Canadian issue of the US LP. |
| 17th Aug 2015, 11:21 AM | #8 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator | The issue was an American one... |
| 17th Aug 2015, 1:41 PM | #9 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | Then why was it in a Canadian Sleeve? They don't sell US records in the US inside Canadian sleeves. It was clearly for sale in Canada and the site protocol is that it's the place of sale which is important, not the place of manufacture. |
| 17th Aug 2015, 2:00 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
TopPopper wrote:
Then why was it in a Canadian Sleeve? They don't sell US records in the US inside Canadian sleeves. It was clearly for sale in Canada and the site protocol is that it's the place of sale which is important, not the place of manufacture.
It's likely that a company based in Canada could print LP covers more cheaply than a US company, so this US label simply availed itself of that Canadian company's services. Simple, really! |
| 17th Aug 2015, 2:54 PM | #11 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator |
TopPopper wrote:
It was clearly for sale in Canada and the site protocol is that it's the place of sale which is important, not the place of manufacture.
Nope! It was for sale in the UK as the CM Distribution sticker will attest! If I buy an American made record in the UK, does it make it a UK issue? I'm going to have to completely rethink my view of several records, if this is the case... Are you saying that the country of manufacture and the address of the label is immaterial? Edited by fokeman on 17th Aug 2015, 4:07 PM |
| 17th Aug 2015, 4:19 PM | #12 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator |
TopPopper wrote:
The principle we use is not where the record was made, but where it was sold. If the US-made LP was sleeved and retailed in Canada, then for me it's a Canadian release. I'm sure many of us have UK CDs in our collections made in places like Czechoslovakia and Netherlands etc, but they weren't for release in those countries.
The essential point is that Shanachie as a small label, licensed from other countries and issued their records themselves. They also issued records exclusively such as the Irish-American series. These records were sent all around the world, they were sold in the UK, they were sold in France, Germany, Holland etc. But they were sold as Shanachie releases and were American. We cannot limit the criterion for defining the nationality of a record to where it was sold. |
| 17th Aug 2015, 5:06 PM | #13 REPORT | |
| scrough🍰 No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3428 Points Moderator | Perhaps in the case of this particular record it needs to be listed under the American label, but as export. The classification as export solves the main part of the problem - this record was sold in many countries, so can't be assigned to any in particular. The other part of the problem is can it also be listed as American or Canadian? If all the sleeves were printed in Canada for economic reasons, then its wholly American and can also be listed as American too. But if the sleeves were printed only for a Canadian issue, its still American (the record label itself) and export. Edited by scrough on 17th Aug 2015, 5:12 PM |
| 17th Aug 2015, 5:07 PM | #14 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator | Totally agree with you Scrough... |
| 17th Aug 2015, 6:19 PM | #15 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | I think there are two different issues being discussed here and it's confusing matters. The first issue is whether a given country's records, when shipped abroad for sale, should be listed as the original country (in this case, USA). As a general rule, the answer would be yes. I have bought US albums brand new in the UK, and listed them here as US releases, which I believe is correct. The key point is that the whole product is packed and sent over as it would have appeared in its home country. The second issue, which is significant, is whether the insertion of a US record into a Canadian sleeve makes it into a Canadian edition. This is where we seem to disagree. To me, the process of printing and using Canadian sleeves makes it a Canadian edition. When you buy a record you don't just buy a piece of vinyl, but a sleeve as well, and the package has therefore been altered specifically for the Canadian market. The fact that the vinyl was pressed in the US doesn't change that. What the record on the site seems to be, to my eyes, is a Canadian release of the US album, which in this example, happened to be exported to the UK. The sleeve makes it Canadian, the fact that it was sold in the UK does not affect that, as it is simply the product one would have found in Canada, but exported. Edited by TopPopper on 17th Aug 2015, 10:04 PM |
| 17th Aug 2015, 6:35 PM | #16 REPORT | |
| scrough🍰 No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3428 Points Moderator | I don't think it's been established that the sleeve was made for Canada, only that it was made in Canada. If Shenachie allowed their Canadian distributors to appear on the sleeve so they could cover the whole of North American, then the record is still American. |
| 17th Aug 2015, 6:42 PM | #17 REPORT | |
| scrough🍰 No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3428 Points Moderator | .. and further, the address given on the cover for people to write to is Shenachie, NJ. No mention of New Jersey being in the USA, which suggests to me that this Canadian printed cover was used for the USA issue. |
| 17th Aug 2015, 7:39 PM | #18 REPORT | |
| scrough🍰 No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3428 Points Moderator |
TopPopper wrote:
When the American company sent the records to Boot and allowed them to print their (distribution) address on the back of the cover... they authorised a Canadian issue of the US LP.
|
| 17th Aug 2015, 10:08 PM | #19 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points |
scrough wrote:
I don't think it's been established that the sleeve was made for Canada, only that it was made in Canada. If Shenachie allowed their Canadian distributors to appear on the sleeve so they could cover the whole of North American, then the record is still American.
I am assuming the sleeve which was printed in Canada was for copies being sold there - thereby, being made in Canada and also for Canada. If the Canadian sleeves were sold in the US, then I withdraw everything I've said. But I don't imagine that was the case. By the way, I had this whole 'American' thing out with someone once, and they convinced me that the word 'American' does just mean of the USA. Canada or Mexico aren't American, they are North American - there's no such continent as America, so Canada isn't in America. That's the conclusion I eventually came to, anyway. |
| 17th Aug 2015, 11:19 PM | #20 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator |
TopPopper wrote:
Canada isn't in America.
And to that, this Canadian Chick sez Alleluia!  Amy |
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