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| 14th Dec 2017, 4:15 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | I just learned from a fellow user, Uncle Dave Lewis, that the two-letter label codes on US Columbia labels between 1917-1920 are label printing dates. "The first letter is A-L and corresponds to the months January through December. With the year, they started the alphabet backwards -- Z = 1917; Y = 1918; X = 1919; W = 1920. Columbia stopped using this system at this point." So these codes can actually be used to date different versions of a label. |
| 15th Dec 2017, 8:20 AM | #2 REPORT | |
 | j.monk Member since Sep 2017 166 Points | Nice ! And quite interesting. I can see now some fellow collectors who weren't aware (including me) spending the evening checking their pre-1920 Columbia labels  |
| 16th Dec 2017, 9:15 PM | #3 REPORT | |
| Bob1951 Member since Oct 2016 2678 Points | Thanks! Great Info!! From the information that you have provided, I have made the following chart for easy reference. Believe me I will forget or get confused about this system very easily. Columbia Label Printing Date Codes Date ----- Code---- Date ------ Code --- Date ------ Code ----- Date ---- Code -----Date ------Code Jan. 1917 - AZ----- Jan. 1918 - AY----- Jan. 1919 - AX------ Jan. 1920 - AW----- Jan. 1921 - AV Feb. 1917 - BZ ---- Feb. 1918 - BY----- Feb. 1919 - BX ----- Feb. 1920 - BW----- Feb. 1921 - BV Mar. 1917 - CZ----- Mar. 1918 - CY----- Mar. 1919 - CX------ Mar. 1920 - CW Apr. 1917 - DZ ----- Apr. 1918 - DY ----- Apr. 1919 - DX ----- Apr. 1920 - DW May 1917 - EZ ----- May 1918 - EY ----- May 1919 - EX ----- May 1920 - EW Jun. 1917 - FZ ----- Jun. 1918 - FY------ Jun. 1919 - FX------ Jun. 1920 - FW Jul. 1917 - GZ ----- Jul. 1918 - GY----- - Jul. 1919 - GX------ Jul. 1920 - GW Aug. 1917- HZ ----- Aug. 1918 - HY----- Aug. 1919 - HX----- Aug. 1920 - HW Sep. 1917 - IZ ----- Sep. 1918 - IY------ Sep. 1919 - IX ------ Sep. 1920 - IW Oct. 1917 - JZ------ Oct. 1918 - JY------ Oct. 1919 - JX ------ Oct. 1920 - JW Nov. 1917 - KZ----- Nov. 1918 - KY----- Nov. 1919 - KX ----- Nov. 1920 - KW Dec. 1917 - LZ----- Dec. 1918 - LY ----- Dec. 1919 - LX----- Dec. 1920 - LW Apparently the editing system here does not allow for spacing between entries. Edited by moderator on 15th Jan 2021, 6:11 PM |
| 17th Dec 2017, 5:02 AM | #4 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | Thanks, that is a very handy list! I have one unexpected addition already, though. Going through my Columbias I've found one record with an AV label printing code (= January 1921) on one side of the record: http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/e4919 Edited by moderator on 17th Dec 2017, 5:03 AM |
| 17th Dec 2017, 9:16 AM | #5 REPORT | |
| Bob1951 Member since Oct 2016 2678 Points | Ok, thanks, I have added it in the list. I found one with a BV when I searched a few labels from the era.This would be Feb. 1921. I did find some in 1921 such as Columbia A3434 has "BP". Columbia A3377 has "CP" on the A side and "BV" on the B side. Did they change the system for a short time before it was abandoned? There is a "GJ" on Columbia A3388. The latest one I saw with a code is Columbia A3453. All the labels with codes that don't fit the system are on the left of the spindle hole. I checked quite a few of them and there does seem to be a pattern up until Feb. 1921. Edited by moderator on 16th Oct 2018, 2:43 AM |
| 17th Dec 2017, 10:35 AM | #6 REPORT | |
| Bob1951 Member since Oct 2016 2678 Points | The Columbia A2673 has an "LX" (Dec. 1919) on the A side and an "AW" (Jan. 1920) on the B side. I guess that they could have run out of a label and re-ordered a new batch. I have no doubt that the code system is correct up until Feb. 1921. |
| 18th Dec 2017, 4:45 AM | #7 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | So now we have yet another label code mystery.  I've arranged the labels in numerical order. I've found a bunch more BPs already. I think the way to go is look at The Talking Machine World and see when these records where released. Columbia A1157 has "KG" (originally released 1912, repress Nov. 1920) Columbia A1809 (orig. 1915) features CW (= March 1920) on the A side and KG (= repress Nov. 1920) on the B side. Columbia A2254 has "GJ" (rec. Mar. 1917; released in early 1917, repressed in July 1921). Columbia A3372 has "BV" (rec. Jan. 19 & Jan. 21, 1921; released on April 10, 1921 per TMW). Columbia A3373 has "BV" (rec. Jan. 26, 1921; released on April 10, 1921 per TMW). Columbia A3374 has "BV" (rec. Jan. 21, 1921; released on April 10, 1921 per TMW). Columbia A3375 has "BV" (rec. Jan. 4 & 18, 1921; released on April 10, 1921 per TMW). Columbia A3376 has "BV" (rec. Jan. 19 & 21, 1921; released on April 10, 1921 per TMW). Columbia A3377 has "CP" on the A side and "BV" on the B side (rec. Jan. 26, 1921; released in April 1921 per TMW). Columbia A3378 has "BV" on the A side and "CP" on the B side (rec. Jan. 31, 1921; released in April 1921 per TMW). Columbia A3381 has "GJ" (rec. Feb. 5, 1921; released May 1921 per TMW, GJ = repress July 1921) Columbia A3382 has "CP" (rec. Feb. 11 & 14, 1921; released May 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3382 has "GJ" (rec. Feb. 11 & 14, 1921; released May 1921 per TMW, GJ = repress July 1921) Columbia A3383 has "CP" (rec. Jan. 26, 1921; released May 10, 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3383 has "GJ" (rec. Jan. 26, 1921; released May 10, 1921 per TMW, GJ = repress July 1921) Columbia A3384 has "CP" (rec. Jan. 21 & Feb. 11, 1921; released May 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3385 has "GJ" (rec. Sept. 1920, GJ = July 1921 repress) Columbia A3386 has "GJ" (rec. Sept. 1920, GJ = July 1921 repress) Columbia A3387 has "GJ" (orig. rel. May 1921, repr. July 1921) Columbia A3388 has "GJ" (rec. Dec. 1920 & Feb. 18, 1921, released May 1921 per TMW, GJ = July 1921 repress) Columbia A3390 has "CP" (rec. Mar. 7, 1921; released May 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3392 has "CP" (rec. Jan. 24 & Mar. 1, 1921; released May 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3393 has "CP" (rec. Feb. 24 & Mar. 3, 1921; released May 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3397 has "CP" (rec. Mar. 7&11, 1921; released June 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3398 has "CP" (rec. Mar. 1, 1921; released June 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3402 has "CP" (rec. Feb. 7 & 21, 1921; released June 1921 per TMW) Based on the evidence so far (rec. in March 1921 or earlier), CP could indicate March 1921 pressings that were released starting in April 1921. Columbia A3412 has "BP" (rec. Apr. 21 & 26, 1921; released July 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3421 usually has "BP", but in one case "BP" / "EV" (rec. Feb. & Mar. 22, 1921; released August 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3426 has "BP" (rec. May 25, 1921; released August 1921) Columbia A3428 has "BP" (rec. Feb. & Mar., 1921; released August 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3429 has "BP" (rec. Feb. 25 & Jun. 1, 1921; released August 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3430 has "BP" (rec. May 28 & Jun. 6, 1921; released August 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3432 has "BP" (rec. May 24 & 25, 1921; released August 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3434 has "BP" (rec. May 23 & Jun. 11, 1921; released September 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3434 also exists with "GV" (= July 1921) on the A and "BP" on the B side (rec. May 23 & Jun. 11, 1921; released September 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3447 has "GV" (rec. July 12 & 14, 1921) Columbia A3453 has "BP" (rec. Jul. 1&13, 1921, released October 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3464 has "CP"(!) (rec. Aug. 17, 1921; released October 1921 per TMW) Columbia A3498 has "BP" (rec. Sep. 26 & Oct. 14, 1921; released December 1921 per TMW) Columbia A6181 has "BV" (rel. 1921) In the E-Series, Columbia E1391 has "BV" (rec. Apr. 1913, rel. 1913, repress Feb. 1921). Columbia E2221 has "GJ" (orig. rel. 1915, repr. July 1921) Columbia E2993 has "GJ" (orig. rel. 1916, repr. July 1921) Columbia E4223 has "GJ" (rec. Sep./Oct. 1918, rel. 1919, repr. July 1921) Columbia E4390 has "GJ" (rec. Feb.?/May 1919, rel. 1919, repr. July 1921) Columbia E4980 has "CP" (rec. Dec. 1920, released 1921). Columbia E7014 has "BV" (rec. Oct. 1920, released 1921). Columbia E7039 has "BV" (rec. Jul. 1920, released 1921). Columbia [url=https://www.discogs.com Edited by xiphophilos on 6th Sep 2024, 9:47 PM |
| 22nd Dec 2017, 9:12 PM | #8 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | It could be that the S prefix added to a regular label code marks represses. For example, SKX [S + November 1919]: Columbia A2351 repress, has EX (= May 1919) on A side, SKX on B side (orig. rel. in Oct. 1917). Columbia A2701 repress (original release has BX = February 1919). Columbia A2730 repress (original release has DX = April 1919). That same SKX code, coupled with BW (Feb. 1920) on the B side, appears on a repress of Columbia A1971. Some records have SKX on one side, KX on the other: Columbia A2683: KX = Nov. 1919 on A side, SKX (= repress Nov. 1919) on B side. Columbia E2131 (orig. rel. 1915, Nov. 1919 repress with SKX on A side, KX on B side. Edited by xiphophilos on 17th May 2019, 5:50 PM |
| 24th Sep 2018, 8:06 AM | #9 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | There are also three-letter label printing codes with a T prefix. All the ones I have found so far are represses of previously released records from 1920 or 1921: Columbia R69149 (Dame Clara Butt, Ye Banks And Braes O' Bonnie Doon) is a single-sided release with printing code TBW (T+February 1920). [This rare R-prefix may indicate a recording originally made by the British Columbia-Rena company, cf. http://klickitat.78online.com/pipermail/78-l/Week-of-Mon-20131021/055616.html] That same record was released as Columbia 69149 on Columbia Banner or Tricolor label with label printing code BP (i.e., in 1921). There's also TAV (T+January 1921) on Columbia E4941, Columbia E4947 and Columbia E4949. Edited by xiphophilos on 25th May 2019, 3:35 PM |
| 9th Feb 2019, 5:29 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | More examples of the T-code: Columbia E3495 (orig. rel. 1917, repress March 1920) with CW on the A side, TCW on the B side. Columbia E4498 (orig. rel. Jan. or Feb. 1920) TCW (repress March 1920) on both sides. Columbia E4068 (rec. May 1919, orig. released in 1919) with TEW (May 1920). Edited by xiphophilos on 14th Jul 2020, 5:08 PM |
| 5th May 2019, 8:03 AM | #11 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | Newest find: Columbia A3447 has "GV" (rec. July 12 & 14, 1921). This can only mean "printed in July 1921." |
| 25th May 2019, 3:33 PM | #12 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | It turns out, the T-prefix was used to mark represses as early as November 1919, e.g., Columbia A2489: orig. rel. in March 1918 with AY code (Jan. 1918); 1919 repress with JX (Oct. 1919) and TKX (Nov. 1919 repress) codes. Edited by xiphophilos on 29th Jun 2020, 11:39 PM |
| 18th Sep 2019, 6:59 PM | #13 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | The latest find of a -V (1921) label printing code so far: Columbia E7303 has HV (= August 1921). I've updated the listing above as well. Edited by xiphophilos on 14th Jul 2020, 5:09 PM |
| 9th Dec 2019, 7:37 PM | #14 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | Another find that allows us to securely identify GJ as a label printing code used on represses only: Columbia A3387 has "GJ" (orig. rel. May 1921, repr. July 1921). New releases, if they had a G-code at all, would have had GV (see listing above). |
| 3rd Jan 2020, 4:08 AM | #15 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | Just discovered a new repress printing code: Columbia A1157 has "KG" (originally released 1912, repress Nov. 1920) |
| 8th Jul 2020, 4:22 AM | #16 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | I've now found the original 78-L thread that Uncle Dave Lewis (udave) told me was the source of his knowledge about these Columbia date codes: http://klickitat.78online.com/pipermail/78-l/Week-of-Mon-20090112/004532.html On that thread, discographer Steven C. Barr is the one who first explains the meaning of the code (here), but Dr. Mike Biel and Dutch discographer Han Enderman also seem to be familiar with its meaning. Edited by xiphophilos on 8th Jul 2020, 4:39 AM |
| 8th Jul 2020, 5:04 AM | #17 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | The solution to the three-letter label printing date codes was shared by Steven C. Barr on 78-L in 2009: "The 3-letter codes always (AFAIK) end in "S" (second printing of the label) or, rarely "T" (third printing)! These were NOT standard, and later re-printings are NOT always so marked!" These codes don't end, but actually start with S and T, but that's a minor detail. In any case, a code like TKX on Columbia A2200 then means: third pressing November 1919. Edited by xiphophilos on 24th Dec 2021, 8:41 AM |
| 25th Jan 2021, 8:00 PM | #18 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | Another example of the rather rare GJ repress code: Columbia E4390 has "GJ" (rec. Feb.?/May 1919, rel. 1919, repr. July 1921) |
| 14th Mar 2021, 5:10 PM | #19 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | Trying to determine when these codes were introduced. I think the earliest I have seen so far is GZ (= July 1917) on a Columbia Gold Band label with "Note the Notes" in the logo. For example: Columbia E2992 (orig. 1916), repress with GZ (July 1917). GZ also exists on the next version of the label design where "Note the Notes" has been replaced with "Grafonola". That dates this change to July 1917. Columbia A2305 with GZ (July 1917). This also means that AZ - FZ don't actually exist. Edited by xiphophilos on 27th Apr 2022, 9:23 PM |
| 22nd Sep 2022, 8:33 AM | #20 REPORT | |
| xiphophilos Member since Dec 2013 3338 Points Moderator | Another example of the rare repress code KG: Columbia A1809 (orig. 1915) features CW (= March 1920) on the A side and KG (= repress Nov. 1920?) on the B side. Edited by xiphophilos on 27th Sep 2022, 6:58 AM |
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