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| 12th Oct 2019, 11:09 AM | #1 REPORT | |
 | OldMod67 "..all the cats, you know who they are.. " Member since Nov 2010 946 Points | Just wondered about the entries for Omnibus Press and Omnibus Press International, e.g. The Velvet Underground book, a UK produced book, which was also sold abroad; aren't these just UK books? Apologies if this has come up already, like the International CD entries.... |
| 20th Oct 2019, 11:31 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | ppint. Member since Aug 2012 6388 Points | any 45worlds item is flagged "international" by respected moderator's rule if it bears two or more different countries' prices; this is clear enough evidence for the flag; equally however, respected moderator's heartfelt plea is that items not be reflagged "international" simply for bearing more than one country's price. discussion of the "international" flag has been ongoing - again - recently in "cdworld", together with the appropriate flag to attach to discs definitely manufactured in one continent or country - or more than one - but also distributed in others, with particular application to the discs distributed in australia; but it's - evidently - also a matter that also applies to books, as well. Edited by ppint. on 20th Oct 2019, 11:37 PM |
| 21st Oct 2019, 8:44 AM | #3 REPORT | |
 | The_Vinyl_Junkie SUBS My body is on the diminishing streak. Member since Dec 2011 8049 Points Moderator | All Omnibus Press books are distributed in Australia. Omnibus Press Sales and Distribution Change 20 April 2016 Omnibus Press (Music Sales) is moving its sales and distribution for Australia and New Zealand from Pan Macmillan to Woodslane from July 1. Alliance Distribution Services will authorise returns for titles within trading terms until 30 June 2016. Authorised returns must be received by ADS no later than 19 August... |
| 21st Oct 2019, 3:54 PM | #4 REPORT | |
 | Juke Jules SUBS Tell me he's lazy, tell me he's slow Member since Jan 2011 4135 Points Moderator | @pp - The respectful moderators are with one or two exceptions considerably less knowledgeable than yr humble self, so I am left wondering if you are respectfully requesting that Australian books not be changed to International, and if not, how you would like to see them entered - Jules |
| 22nd Oct 2019, 2:14 AM | #5 REPORT | |
| ppint. Member since Aug 2012 6388 Points | @the_vinyl_junkie: thanks: i didn't know this of omnibus press titles (& i don't for that matter know that/whether/if all omnibus press titles are distributed in the uk); @jj: it's a poser, isn't it: re-flagging books, cds &/or lps "international" (or "europe", or "bootleg" for that matter) actually often reduces the information provided rather than increasing it, because it removes the originating publisher's country where this is a known thing, and a single entity, overwriting it with the very non-specific "distributed commercially in more than one country" meaning, which doesn't discriminate between "whole world", "whole world excluding china & russia", "whole world excluding china, russia and usa", " whole world excluding china, russia, usa & canada" ,. ..through "just all of europe" or "the european union".. (which are all meanings the book & music megacorpses apply to "international"..) ..through just "uk & republic of ireland" - or any other two countries, for that matter... - the "international problem" does need an answer that works for the way the book and pre-recorded music publishing world currently works (& has recently worked - say, since about 1980), doesn't gum up representing how it used to work, applies across all of 45worlds - is hopefully sufficiently flexible to cope with the publishing world's next brainstorm of international megacorpsification - *and* is easily - immediately? - understandable to people who just come here to browse and add their collections; quite a tall order... - the discussion between lee wrecker, philmh and myself in "cdworld" on the elektra/rhino reissue of the doors' "strange days", item, gives more detail, thoughts and some suggestions on the problem, and i think they're both liable to know an awful lot more about the australasian (& southeast asian ?) cd & book "local" publishing & distribution of european, s.e. asian & merkin-originated items, than does this ppint. - but in the short term, yes, *not* re-flagging as "international" books that happen to bear more than one country's price on their cover or cds distributed in more than one country (or "commercial territory"), but were published by a single national company or subsidiary of an international megapublisher from one country would seem to be sensibler than overwriting "uk" or "ireland" or "usa" or "canada" or "australia" in which it was actually published: - other countries (or "commercial territories") in which the same edition has been commercially distributed can be given in the notes and in comments, increasng the information we provide, rather than decreasing it - no? Edited by ppint. on 22nd Oct 2019, 2:34 AM |
| 22nd Oct 2019, 9:30 AM | #6 REPORT | |
| Juke Jules SUBS Tell me he's lazy, tell me he's slow Member since Jan 2011 4135 Points Moderator | Yes Thanks for your input to the debate. Non-internationalisation would result in so many duplicate entries (and arguments :) |
| 25th Oct 2019, 10:01 AM | #7 REPORT | |
| OldMod67 "..all the cats, you know who they are.. " Member since Nov 2010 946 Points | Just caught up on the replies,thanks. The example I gave (Velvet Underground) as far as I'm concerned, is a UK book produced by Omnibus Press,a division of Book Sales Limited, printed and bound in Great Britain. The UK order number system used by Omnibus is printed on the rear cover and the overseas distributors for Australia and USA are inside, but that's just it, a UK book distributed abroad. Regarding the multiple pricing of other books, I've just pulled from a shelf The Long Voyage by John Christopher, published by Hodder & Stoughton in 1966. Pricing detail on rear cover lists United Kingdom, then Australia,New Zealand and South Africa. Printed in Great Britain for Hodder & Stoughton Ltd, London E.C.4 this could never seriously be considered an 'international' entry; it's a British book that could be sold abroad. The CD debate is more complex I agree, but the book world need not be! |
| 25th Oct 2019, 10:27 AM | #8 REPORT | |
| The_Vinyl_Junkie SUBS My body is on the diminishing streak. Member since Dec 2011 8049 Points Moderator | And this comes back to where you are putting country of manufacture above country of release. |
| 25th Oct 2019, 10:51 AM | #9 REPORT | |
| OldMod67 "..all the cats, you know who they are.. " Member since Nov 2010 946 Points | Not necessarily, although this debate may be never ending. For example though, UK manuafacture, and price/cat number would to me indicate that the UK is the primary market, and others listed being further territories in expected distribution chain. If a publisher in Australia published a book in these conditions, and it went on sale here then I'd consider it an import, not UK, not international. So, as with some of those 1980's WEA/Atlantic LPs and CDs made in Germany, for the UK market, maybe it's going to be less rigid than some may wish and you can't please all the 'catters all the time (including me!) |
| 25th Oct 2019, 11:21 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| The_Vinyl_Junkie SUBS My body is on the diminishing streak. Member since Dec 2011 8049 Points Moderator | Reading the book guide and then reading CD album's Guide to Country does make the head spin. Whenever I get to doing my books...hmmmm. |
| 26th Oct 2019, 12:39 AM | #11 REPORT | |
| OldMod67 "..all the cats, you know who they are.. " Member since Nov 2010 946 Points | You're not wrong and I don't really contribute that often either! |
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