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| NCB and BIEM |
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| 24th Apr 2021, 5:17 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Stephen Harris Member since Mar 2021 193 Points | I'm confused about the codes NCB and BIEM that appear on a lot of my 78rpm records. The BIEM code I can understand, as it's international. But when I Google about NCB, I get Nordisk Copyright Bureau and this seems to be only for music issued and sold in Scandinavian countries - so why is it present on a Made In England record? Thanks, Stephen. |
| 24th Apr 2021, 6:25 PM | #2 REPORT | |
| TheJudge In-house specialist in drive-by moddings. Member since Dec 2012 3715 Points Moderator | One possibility is that the record was manufactured in England for sale in the Nordic countries. |
| 24th Apr 2021, 6:41 PM | #3 REPORT | |
 | Redpunk SUBS Crates Are For Digging Member since Aug 2012 25322 Points Moderator | This one has 3 different logos for UK, Europe and Scandinavia I presume as Toralf was a Norwegian artist they would be expecting to export a few and it saved repressing them. https://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/fb2210 |
| 24th Apr 2021, 8:10 PM | #4 REPORT | |
 | Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator | NCB is present on many UK issues. It's certainly a rights collection agency for Scandanavia so perhaps it allowed exports to Scandinavia to avoid them having to press them there even though most of them were sold in the UK. There are lots of Beatles etc. with NCB and Decca did the same. In the label shown, Mecolico would have gathered payment for the artists in the UK, NCB in Scandinavia and BIEM probably represented the rest of the world although it is a French based organisation, from just outside Paris. BIEM is still going. |
| 24th Apr 2021, 11:40 PM | #5 REPORT | |
| scrough No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :( Member since Jan 2013 3428 Points Moderator | I wondered if the NCB etc markings were in any way also related to fees for playing on radio? |
| 25th Apr 2021, 8:46 AM | #6 REPORT | |
| lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5803 Points Moderator | Hello scrough NCB has nothing to do with money for being played on the radio. There is another organization called STIM which take care of that. Here is an example how the money you get paid for 1 minute, but your track must be played at least 30 sekonds to be paid. [url]Spotify Premium: 1,31 öre per lyssning Spotify Family: 0,85 öre per lyssning Spotify Student: 0,50 öre per lyssning Spotify Free: 0,18 öre per lyssning[/url] If you want, I can translate it into English. |
| 25th Apr 2021, 8:57 AM | #7 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator | NCB is a rights collection agency which paid the artist for a performance on Radio or in public in some other way. It is still in existence and co-ordinates the individual National Rights Collection agencies. STIM is the Swedish one. Further information |
| 25th Apr 2021, 11:03 AM | #8 REPORT | |
| Stephen Harris Member since Mar 2021 193 Points | So its presence is more of an indicator in case the record goes on to be sold/issued in Scandinavia then? I had assumed that there would be a charge levied to have it displayed on the record, a bit like a duty stamp, in which case it would make no commercial sense for a record company to pay Scandinavian copyrights where the record was unlikely to actually be sold there. |
| 25th Apr 2021, 5:12 PM | #9 REPORT | |
 | KeithS SUBS Member since Dec 2009 12492 Points Moderator | I get the impression that Denmark was most likely to buy recordings directly from sources in the UK...possibly even the US..thus bypassing their own Recording Industry. Articles I've read show that Denmark had less access to foreign popular music through radio and television forcing UK and US companies to arrange touring shows to advertise their artists. The Danes also made use of a nationwide free library service that no doubt reduced their home record company's sales enormously. Big chain stores could import best selling foreign records and have them for sale before the appropriate Danish record company even had them for sale. Maybe someone from Denmark can explain the import taxation that was highest in all Scandinavia, something to do with Luxury Goods possibly. It meant that private importers could order boxes of records directly from Decca or EMI..tax paid at source making it much cheaper for them I should think that NCB markings on UK pressed record could be because of this |
| 25th Apr 2021, 6:37 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator |
Stephen Harris wrote:
So its presence is more of an indicator in case the record goes on to be sold/issued in Scandinavia then?
Yes, exactly. That's what these mechanical copyright organisations do. They collect royalties from public performance of any record in any country. If you buy a record designed to be sold and played in Germany it will have the German performance rights organisation printed on the label GEMA, in France it was SACEM or BIEM. It was not the same as Purchase Tax which existed in the UK early in the 1960s. Then the Record Company had to pay the tax just to make the record. The stamp (like a postage stamp) showed that the Purchase Tax had been paid but this was only necessary when the print run went above 100 records (you could get away with about 105). Under this threshold number no tax needed to be paid. This allowed small run, low budget organisations to slip in under the tax requirements. |
| 25th Apr 2021, 6:41 PM | #11 REPORT | |
| Fokeman I used to have a good memory but now I can't re Member since May 2011 5096 Points Moderator |
lorangrecords wrote:
Hello scrough
NCB has nothing to do with money for being played on the radio. There is another organization called STIM which take care of that. .... On the contrary. That is exactly what NCB did! (DOES!) STIM is the Swedish organisation which reports to NCB. STIM reporting to NCB |
| 25th Apr 2021, 10:39 PM | #12 REPORT | |
| lorangrecords SUBS (Ulf) Member since Jan 2013 5803 Points Moderator | About STIM Payments We distribute the revenue from licence fees to authors and publishers who own the rights to the actual music that has been played. This manner of operation is international. STIM is part of a worldwide network of corresponding organisations. This is why we can remunerate all creators whose music is played – even creators from other countries tied to other collecting societies. |
| 27th Apr 2021, 12:14 AM | #13 REPORT | |
| Pridesale Member since Mar 2013 805 Points | It does seem strange how many UK 78s particulary carry rights organisation "stamps"on the disc faces, mainly for indeed the european countries with relatively low populations, even if those companies also had local branches and manufacturing. We can note that this is true even in the WW2 era , where one would have thought any boat running the Baltic must have been taking a risk. It could only be for the convenience all round so do this. I think in the 45 era the nordic countries seemed to take english origin discs, and place in their own sleeves , perhaps 'part finished' goods had some kind of preferential import duty (and poss UK tax break for "exported manufactures" -that would not surprise me) |
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