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| Salem's Lot (1979) |
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| 2nd Aug 2021, 7:28 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Bornoutoftime Member since Feb 2018 5 Points | I noticed that one film had disappeared from my Cinema list. It is Salem's Lot the 1979 Tobe Hooper directed version. I guess it is because it's catalogued in the TV world. However, this particular film played in theatres in Europe when it was released, so in my opinion it should be also in the Cinema world. Was there a discussion somehwere before it was deleted from Cinema World? |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 2:06 AM | #2 REPORT | |
 | Twistin Member since Jan 2012 2057 Points | Yeah that is odd, it's still a movie and there's zillions of TV movies in Cinema World. I had no idea they were being purged and / or moved. That would just suck. |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 2:11 AM | #3 REPORT | |
| Twistin Member since Jan 2012 2057 Points | Damn, even the remake is gone. Jeez, why is there a TV movie choice if they are now banned? And why no mention of this in the forums before this. If Cinema World is now only for theatrical films, I will surely lose my taste for this world entirely. How long before there's a Shorts World? Or a Straight-to-Video World? Ya have a good thing and it gets over-processed. (sigh) |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 2:16 AM | #4 REPORT | |
| Twistin Member since Jan 2012 2057 Points | And another thing, my ratings were deleted from those two Salem's Lot films, so they weren't moved, they were just deleted with no respect to the user. (ie, the entries in TV World show no ratings that I had on the Cinema World listings.) How long has this been happening? |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 6:50 AM | #5 REPORT | |
 | getalife So many questions, so few answers Member since Nov 2010 878 Points Moderator | Should we not wait to see the reason this has happened before jumping to conclusions. I’m sure this will be looked into and explained. |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 7:06 AM | #6 REPORT | |
| Twistin Member since Jan 2012 2057 Points | It would have been more logical to announce such a thing rather than waiting for it to be discovered inadvertently. Just sayin'... |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 9:44 AM | #7 REPORT | |
| zamla_71 ask little, receive alot! Member since Jul 2020 3080 Points | You could put the blame on me. I requested that the ones in cinema world should be merged with the ones in tv world. None of them are tv movies, but tv miniseries. That was the reason for my request |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 10:21 AM | #8 REPORT | |
| Twistin Member since Jan 2012 2057 Points | Sadly, IMDb has trended the idea that a two-part TV-movie is a "miniseries"...it's not a series at all, it's a movie based on a novel that cannot be condensed into a 100 minute TV movie, so they split it into 2-parts for TV consumption. A few years ago, this was not the case, but since IMDb has now declared it to be true, everybody follows suit. Back then, they were TV movies, not a collection of unique episodes based on a group of characters. How is "Salem's Lot" identical to "The Sopranos" in category? If we are going to follow suit with every silly decision IMDb makes, perhaps this site should also cater to phone users exclusively while making computer users absorb bloated pages that take an eternity to fully load? Unique sites with their own identity seem to be a faded memory. |
| 3rd Aug 2021, 10:31 AM | #9 REPORT | |
 | Charlie Chalk Self praise is no recommendation. Member since Oct 2011 45326 Points Moderator | I don't see any reason why they can't both be listed under TV Series and Cinema, as long as there are clear Notes explaining the reason for this. That would help stop anyone else asking for them to be deleted/merged. I think that we should use this sparingly though. Unfortunately, we are unable to merge entries across worlds, so the only option is to delete one and then create a new entry in the other world. Does someone want to enter them again under Cinema, and add a Note about the logic? |
| 7th Aug 2021, 10:39 PM | #10 REPORT | |
 | sladesounds Turning rebellion into money since 1962 Member since Nov 2009 6570 Points Moderator | Nevertheless the forum posts reminded me of this great "movie/mini series". One of the best Stephen King adaptations to make it to film. Note to self, find a copy to watch. |
| 8th Aug 2021, 2:56 AM | #11 REPORT | |
| mikewn Member since Sep 2020 7963 Points | I would argue that there are cases for having both cinema and television series entries associated with a DVD, and it would be nice for the DVD entry to show both of them. Many documentary "series" such as "Frontline", etc. have television series pages for them, and it is good to see all DVDs with Frontline content for example listed under the TV series entry, but in this case, each episode in effect is like its own movie and they have completely separate content and most likely separate castes with a possible exception of narrators, etc. from other episodes. And often times you'll find that when a series like this takes an existing documentary out there and adds it as an "episode", even IMDB has in effect "duplicate" entries for the separate "non-episode" documentary and the episode entry for the same film. Would be good to allow for episodes in these cases to have cinema entries (and perhaps have an "episode" type to define it as too). |
| 8th Aug 2021, 5:09 PM | #12 REPORT | |
| zamla_71 ask little, receive alot! Member since Jul 2020 3080 Points |
Twistin wrote:
Sadly, IMDb has trended the idea that a two-part TV-movie is a "miniseries"...it's not a series at all, it's a movie based on a novel that cannot be condensed into a 100 minute TV movie, so they split it into 2-parts for TV consumption. A few years ago, this was not the case, but since IMDb has now declared it to be true, everybody follows suit. Back then, they were TV movies, not a collection of unique episodes based on a group of characters. How is "Salem's Lot" identical to "The Sopranos" in category?
If we are going to follow suit with every silly decision IMDb makes, perhaps this site should also cater to phone users exclusively while making computer users absorb bloated pages that take an eternity to fully load? Unique sites with their own identity seem to be a faded memory. Hi Twistin. To bad you feel this way, but this got nothing to do with IMDB at all. The source i have used is a book printed in 1993 (don't think IMDB was a major influence back then) In this book a chapter is called King On TV. The First line in that chapter is: Stephen King's name first came up on the TV screen then Salem's Lot was produced as a two-part mini-series in 1979. Facts from the same book: Salem's Lot 1979 Director: Tobe Hooper CBS-TV: Two-part mini-series Running Time: Original mini-series: 210 min TV Movie: 150 min European Theatrical Release: 112 min. Original made as a Two-part mini-series so it belongs in the TV World. A year later re-cut into a 3 hour TV Movie The European release is such a different entity from the other (i have it on some old VHS copied from a rental tape). So how to fix this? Salem's Lot (European Theatrical) in Cinema World and maybe a note in TV World about the mini-series been re-cut into a 3 hour TV Movie. Could this work? Thanx and don't believe that IMDB influence us all ;) |
| 9th Aug 2021, 7:02 PM | #13 REPORT | |
| Twistin Member since Jan 2012 2057 Points | While that book may have referred to it as a mini-series, I still contend that a 2-part TV movie was never considered a mini-series in the mainstream until IMDb re-defined its listings. As influential as IMDb may be, they never considered this for the majority of their existence, then suddenly every 2-part TV movie was changed on their site to mini-series, each part defined as an episode. In the 60s & 70s, Disney had a one-hour 7PM Sunday night program which featured a lot of 1 hour shows, as well as 2-hour movies shown in two parts. This included a mix of their theatrical hits, as well as original made-for-TV films. Those TV-movies in two parts were no different from, say, "The Love Bug" shown in 2-parts -- the only difference being that one was made for TV, so suddenly those two parts are TV show episodes. In my view, a TV movie is simply a movie that debuts on television instead of cinema. 2-parts doesn't convert it to a TV program simply for being too long for a specific time-slot. Those two parts are not a separate plot utilizing the same cast & characters the way a TV program does, it's the same story / plot split in two parts...just as with my example of "The Love Bug", only done so to placate a television's time-slot layout. Those two parts of "Salem's Lot" are not episodes, the story just picks up where it left off at the end of the first part. And being trimmed to under two hours for a theatrical run doesn't change that fact. When I watch either "Salem's Lot" film on home video, it's a movie, not a television program. It's only defined as a mini-series when broadcast in two parts. That just seems silly. Like defining a vinyl or cassette album differently because the two parts (sides) are divided rather than contiguous like a CD. That is the logic the way I see it. |
| 10th Aug 2021, 10:42 AM | #14 REPORT | |
 | OldMod67 ● "..all the cats, you know who they are.. " Member since Nov 2010 963 Points | From an article by Bill Kelly, published in Cinefantastique, vol 9, issue 2 (1980): Richard Kobritz (producer) -"I think it stands a better chance as a television miniseries than a normal feature film." Bill Kelly- So the decision was made to turn Salem's Lot into a miniseries and thereby lick the problem of its unwieldy length. Actually, though the production is technically labelled a miniseries, it is basically a four-hour movie (3 & half hours, figuring commercial time) scheduled for successive nights. I bought this on VHS in the eighties first in the movie version (disappointing, remembering what I'd seen in the two-parter!) The last time I bought it was the 2 disc dvd, which only suffers from the TV spoilers before each of the two parts... I don't use IMDb so I wouldn't have known what went on there anyway. Yep, movie version in cinema world. TV two parter in TV world. Can't see the problem here. |
| 11th Aug 2021, 4:24 AM | #15 REPORT | |
| Twistin Member since Jan 2012 2057 Points | The problem here, as I mentioned in my previous post, is the current interpretation of mini-series as a TV program and each part as episodes (since, I assume, due to the word series and the fact that it appears on television.) TV uses that term to accommodate the presence of more than one airing, rather than the content. If Until the End of the World debuted on TV, those segmented airings would then be declared episodes of a mini-series, yet when airing in a cinema, it's a single body of work. The only difference being the venue the film first shows. That should not declare whether it is a movie or a television program (it's still a TV movie, the series part only specifies the divided airings). The titles of these two worlds are a bit vague, Cinema possibly suggests theatrical films (which would, if we were explicit, render inappropriate all other TV movies, most shorts, as well as modern films debuting online and direct-to-video) So if that is the case, there should be a purge-a-rama. That would be based on the fact that those two TV movies were recently removed from Cinema World. I doubt that is the case, though. Likewise, TV World is equally vague, possibly even being inclusive to theatrical films aired on TV with different edits and / or scenes added that were not present in the theatrical versions (there's quite a number of these instances). I don't see the problem in those crossovers, but I don't believe so-called mini-series' (at least the 2-part variety) should be treated the same as the traditional definition of TV program. And as a final note, the term mini-series follows the US terminology of a TV program as TV series, so the term is more explicitly appropriate with many of the European 5 or 6-part series (serie?) where the individual parts are indeed unique episodes. If this were a European term, I am guessing it would refer to the equal of a US season? So, does the term suggest that the "Salem's Lot" mini-series is a (US) TV program or a European season? Neither make sense, mini-series could only mean long (TV) movie aired in multiple parts, rather than individual episodes. |
| 11th Aug 2021, 7:38 PM | #16 REPORT | |
| zamla_71 ask little, receive alot! Member since Jul 2020 3080 Points | Here is some fun facts: (stolen from around the web) Mini-Series: A miniseries (or mini-series) is a television show that tells a story in a predetermined, limited number of episodes. A miniseries is distinguished from an ongoing television series; the latter does not usually have a predetermined number of episodes and may continue for several years. Television films broadcast over even two or three nights were commonly referred to as miniseries. TV Movies: A television film is a feature-length motion picture that is produced and originally distributed by or to a television network, in contrast to theatrical films made explicitly for initial showing in movie theaters. These features originally filled a 90-minute programming time slot (including commercials), later expanded to two hours. So this is the way i see it: When a TV Movie ends, it ends. It does not come back the next night or the next week to show the next part. It just ends, while a mini-series just do the opposite until it has aired the final episode. How about that logic????? And here is some more info about the piece, we're talking about. Salem's Lot was the first ever Stephen King miniseries, but the classic vampire tale actually has no less than four different cuts. Salem's Lot, Showing how quickly King's name was becoming a lure for audiences, it was only three years after Carrie became a hit movie that CBS decided to adapt Salem's Lot into a marquee miniseries. The original version of Salem's Lot, which aired over two nights on November 17 and 24, 1979, runs a meaty 3 hours and 20 minutes without commercials. That's much longer than a two-night broadcast TV miniseries would be today, However, it actually didn't take decades for something like that to happen to Salem's Lot, as subsequent CBS rebroadcasts were chopped down by nearly an hour. That rebroadcast version has never been released to own, but considering how slow the original cut can be, one wonders if it trims the fat in a positive way. The most curious cut of Salem's Lot is the one made for theatrical exhibition in countries outside the U.S. This edit was drastically altered, running a full 88 minutes shorter than the original TV cut, roughly the length of an entire feature film. As one might imagine, lots of full scenes are missing, and the plot is rendered rushed and nearly incomprehensible as a result. One tradeoff at least was that alternate, too violent for TV takes were used for some of the kills and attack scenes. The theatrical cut was eventually released stateside, but only on VHS. Finally, there's the most commonly available cut, that found on the Salem's Lot DVD and Blu-Ray releases. This is essentially the original broadcast, but just like they did with IT 1990's DVD and Blu-ray releases, Warner Bros. opted to cut the ending credits of part one and opening credits of part 2, as well as an opening recap that originally led into part 2. At least, unlike IT, no actual scenes that played during the credits ended up removed and lost to fans. Release Salem's Lot originally aired on CBS on November 17 and 24 of 1979 in two 2-hour segments. The following year, CBS aired an edited version of the miniseries in one 3-hour segment. Theatrical cut A 112-minute edit of the miniseries was subsequently given a theatrical release in Europe. The theatrical cut of Salem's Lot features different musical cues, alternative scenes, and deletes many scenes, including the prologue and epilogue with Ben Mears and Mark Petrie in Guatemala as well as Susan's fate. Home release The theatrical cut also aired on cable television and was titled Salem's Lot: The Movie for its VHS release. It was later released alongside A Return to Salem's Lot on VHS as a "Movie Double Feature". Warner Bros. eventually released the full-length miniseries on to VHS, as well as on DVD. The DVD release includes all of the extra scenes from the theatrical version, except the alternative scene of Larry Crockett putting Cully Sawyer's gun in his mouth. A Blu-ray version was released on September 20. By the way, how many times could you read mini-series in this section? And just one more question! How come all the other Stephen King 2 parts (or more) adaptions are listed in TV World and not Cinema World? It, The Langoliers, The Tommyknockers, The Shining (remake) etc, etc. All of them was there, except Salem's Lot (it is now). And rightfully so. They are mini-series originally produced for airing on TV. Thanx. Edited by moderator on 19th Aug 2021, 4:37 PM |
| 19th Aug 2021, 4:40 PM | #17 REPORT | |
| Charlie Chalk Self praise is no recommendation. Member since Oct 2011 45326 Points Moderator | Several later posts have been deleted due to the unnecessay content / conflict between members. Remember this is meant to be a fun site. As mentioned above - there is no reason why the movie / tv series can't be listed in both worlds, as long as there is a Note and/or Comment explaining the reasoning. |
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