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| 23rd May 2023, 7:27 PM | #21 REPORT | |
 | danceband91 Member since Nov 2020 119 Points |
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
If you were doing what I am trying to do what "Charts" would you use ? Addendum: Some of the sheet music had the individual artists on.....I have the same piece of sheet music, one with a Gracie Fields photograph and one with a Vera Lynn photo, same company.
I'm not sure I'd do anything different really - I don't know of any other UK charts that cover the period. I would probably focus on the Missing Charts book (trying to correct as many errors as possible), given it was actually based on record sales. I'd perhaps try and collect the B sides as well, since I'm not convinced the A sides have been correctly identified - e.g. the other side of Turner Layton's 'Safe In My Heart' is 'When You Wish Upon A Star', which I'd have thought would have been a much bigger hit. That would double the work however! I don't know how much I trust the sheet music charts on the Pop Music History site, without knowing exactly how it was devised. There are some real oddities there, e.g. Carter & Evans having the only charted version of 'One Dozen Roses', despite recordings by e.g. Carroll Gibbons and Joe Loss. I'd certainly never heard of Carter & Evans, and I doubt many people at the time would have done, given it was their first record! And then under 'You're Mine' it states 'sheet music only available', despite there being recordings by Oscar Rabin and Charlie Kunz (and probably others). And that's just from a quick glance at 1942! You may be onto something with the artists being specified on the sheet music itself. There were certainly many 'versions' of each piece of sheet music, with different artists on the covers (specifying 'as broadcast by', 'as recorded by' etc.). Perhaps whoever devised the Pop Music History site had access to data showing what different 'versions' were produced, and then chose from those the artists that had actually released a record. |
| 23rd May 2023, 8:15 PM | #22 REPORT | |
| Mike Wilson1 Musicologist Member since Dec 2019 26 Points |
danceband91 wrote:
Both Carroll Gibbons 'Where In The World' and 'Tis Autumn' appear to be for sale on this site: http://www.allotria-berlin.de/fp_03a.html. Unfortunately it's in German, and I don't speak a word of it! As far as I can gather, they do ship worldwide, but it's not clear how you actually place an order!
I contacted them but the minimum order was £30 and the two I want only come to £12, I will have to keep looking |
| 23rd May 2023, 9:24 PM | #23 REPORT | |
 | mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1118 Points |
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
I know it seems to be still a big number.....36 songs.....But then I will have the complete 1940, 1941 and 1942 and most of 1943 so I guess I'm not doing so bad.
Complete from what?? |
| 23rd May 2023, 9:25 PM | #24 REPORT | |
| mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1118 Points |
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
mister_tmg wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
I use it sometimes as a "guide" but with so many errors in it I do not trust all the info at all....They have not checked the information....When the book came out I contacted the publisher with a list of 292 "Facts" that they had got wrong that were not just typos and they said that they would put this right in future editions.....The fact that there never was a future edition could mean that several buyers thought the same as me and failed to recommend the book to others....It is where they mention a record that nobody has ever owned, seen or heard !!.....I am trying to get all the ones that I do not have from the War Years 1940 -1945....I have a lot of them but there are those in my list that I either cannot find or never had....I use other lists and books as well so I think I've got it pretty well nailed on though am always open to be told otherwise.....The ones that you will kindly copy for me will help a lot
Gosh… 292 errors! I would be interested in your list. I wonder how many records have the wrong catalogue numbers, and what explains the mystery Adelaide Hall 78. Perhaps they meant the RAF version? You would think that the information would have been checked. If a record is that hard to find, surely it cannot have been a top seller! The book seemed to go out of print quite quickly. I’m not sure why it’s now so hard to find. I disregarded the book when it came out, but then regretted it, by which time it was no longer on sale. A fellow researcher tracked one down for me recently though. I suppose it’s an interesting guide to what was selling, but not “official” like the contemporary charts. It shouldn’t be taken as gospel. I don’t see why they couldn’t publish the book again though. I just wonder about the records in your list which are not in the Waters book… why them? So many have wrong catalogue numbers and wrong titles,wrong atists and two even had wrong year totally That's rather disappointing. Just shows why the book shouldn't be taken too seriously. |
| 23rd May 2023, 9:32 PM | #25 REPORT | |
| mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1118 Points |
danceband91 wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
If you were doing what I am trying to do what "Charts" would you use ? Addendum: Some of the sheet music had the individual artists on.....I have the same piece of sheet music, one with a Gracie Fields photograph and one with a Vera Lynn photo, same company.
I'm not sure I'd do anything different really - I don't know of any other UK charts that cover the period. I would probably focus on the Missing Charts book (trying to correct as many errors as possible), given it was actually based on record sales. I'd perhaps try and collect the B sides as well, since I'm not convinced the A sides have been correctly identified - e.g. the other side of Turner Layton's 'Safe In My Heart' is 'When You Wish Upon A Star', which I'd have thought would have been a much bigger hit. That would double the work however! I don't know how much I trust the sheet music charts on the Pop Music History site, without knowing exactly how it was devised. There are some real oddities there, e.g. Carter & Evans having the only charted version of 'One Dozen Roses', despite recordings by e.g. Carroll Gibbons and Joe Loss. I'd certainly never heard of Carter & Evans, and I doubt many people at the time would have done, given it was their first record! And then under 'You're Mine' it states 'sheet music only available', despite there being recordings by Oscar Rabin and Charlie Kunz (and probably others). And that's just from a quick glance at 1942! You may be onto something with the artists being specified on the sheet music itself. There were certainly many 'versions' of each piece of sheet music, with different artists on the covers (specifying 'as broadcast by', 'as recorded by' etc.). Perhaps whoever devised the Pop Music History site had access to data showing what different 'versions' were produced, and then chose from those the artists that had actually released a record. Right, well this perhaps explains why Mike has been looking for the Carter and Evans record. But as you suggest, why did the site author choose their version of One Dozen Roses? Curiously, there's no way of contacting the webmaster. Regarding You're Mine, perhaps those recordings hadn't been issued when the song was in the sheet music charts? Hence, "sheet music only" when it was a hit? That is a good point about artists featured on the sheet music perhaps being the more popular renditions of the songs. Although there's no listing of what sheet music was available, is there? The British Library do hold a lot, but I don't know if they have multiple editions of the same song. Personally, and especially given what I know about these errors, I'd rather stick to contemporary published charts. |
| 24th May 2023, 12:27 PM | #26 REPORT | |
| Mike Wilson1 Musicologist Member since Dec 2019 26 Points |
mister_tmg wrote:
danceband91 wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
If you were doing what I am trying to do what "Charts" would you use ? Addendum: Some of the sheet music had the individual artists on.....I have the same piece of sheet music, one with a Gracie Fields photograph and one with a Vera Lynn photo, same company.
I'm not sure I'd do anything different really - I don't know of any other UK charts that cover the period. I would probably focus on the Missing Charts book (trying to correct as many errors as possible), given it was actually based on record sales. I'd perhaps try and collect the B sides as well, since I'm not convinced the A sides have been correctly identified - e.g. the other side of Turner Layton's 'Safe In My Heart' is 'When You Wish Upon A Star', which I'd have thought would have been a much bigger hit. That would double the work however! I don't know how much I trust the sheet music charts on the Pop Music History site, without knowing exactly how it was devised. There are some real oddities there, e.g. Carter & Evans having the only charted version of 'One Dozen Roses', despite recordings by e.g. Carroll Gibbons and Joe Loss. I'd certainly never heard of Carter & Evans, and I doubt many people at the time would have done, given it was their first record! And then under 'You're Mine' it states 'sheet music only available', despite there being recordings by Oscar Rabin and Charlie Kunz (and probably others). And that's just from a quick glance at 1942! You may be onto something with the artists being specified on the sheet music itself. There were certainly many 'versions' of each piece of sheet music, with different artists on the covers (specifying 'as broadcast by', 'as recorded by' etc.). Perhaps whoever devised the Pop Music History site had access to data showing what different 'versions' were produced, and then chose from those the artists that had actually released a record. Right, well this perhaps explains why Mike has been looking for the Carter and Evans record. But as you suggest, why did the site author choose their version of One Dozen Roses? Curiously, there's no way of contacting the webmaster. Regarding You're Mine, perhaps those recordings hadn't been issued when the song was in the sheet music charts? Hence, "sheet music only" when it was a hit? That is a good point about artists featured on the sheet music perhaps being the more popular renditions of the songs. Although there's no listing of what sheet music was available, is there? The British Library do hold a lot, but I don't know if they have multiple editions of the same song. Personally, and especially given what I know about these errors, I'd rather stick to contemporary published charts.[/quote It's a minefield and with there being no definitive source we all just have to do our best....I have completed all the chart lists available for 1940 - 1942 and have got every record mentioned but so much music to find and so little time |
| 24th May 2023, 12:31 PM | #27 REPORT | |
| Mike Wilson1 Musicologist Member since Dec 2019 26 Points |
mister_tmg wrote:
danceband91 wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
If you were doing what I am trying to do what "Charts" would you use ? Addendum: Some of the sheet music had the individual artists on.....I have the same piece of sheet music, one with a Gracie Fields photograph and one with a Vera Lynn photo, same company.
I'm not sure I'd do anything different really - I don't know of any other UK charts that cover the period. I would probably focus on the Missing Charts book (trying to correct as many errors as possible), given it was actually based on record sales. I'd perhaps try and collect the B sides as well, since I'm not convinced the A sides have been correctly identified - e.g. the other side of Turner Layton's 'Safe In My Heart' is 'When You Wish Upon A Star', which I'd have thought would have been a much bigger hit. That would double the work however! I don't know how much I trust the sheet music charts on the Pop Music History site, without knowing exactly how it was devised. There are some real oddities there, e.g. Carter & Evans having the only charted version of 'One Dozen Roses', despite recordings by e.g. Carroll Gibbons and Joe Loss. I'd certainly never heard of Carter & Evans, and I doubt many people at the time would have done, given it was their first record! And then under 'You're Mine' it states 'sheet music only available', despite there being recordings by Oscar Rabin and Charlie Kunz (and probably others). And that's just from a quick glance at 1942! You may be onto something with the artists being specified on the sheet music itself. There were certainly many 'versions' of each piece of sheet music, with different artists on the covers (specifying 'as broadcast by', 'as recorded by' etc.). Perhaps whoever devised the Pop Music History site had access to data showing what different 'versions' were produced, and then chose from those the artists that had actually released a record. Right, well this perhaps explains why Mike has been looking for the Carter and Evans record. But as you suggest, why did the site author choose their version of One Dozen Roses? Curiously, there's no way of contacting the webmaster. Regarding You're Mine, perhaps those recordings hadn't been issued when the song was in the sheet music charts? Hence, "sheet music only" when it was a hit? That is a good point about artists featured on the sheet music perhaps being the more popular renditions of the songs. Although there's no listing of what sheet music was available, is there? The British Library do hold a lot, but I don't know if they have multiple editions of the same song. Personally, and especially given what I know about these errors, I'd rather stick to contemporary published charts. If there is ever anything you can think of that I may be able to do for you please mention it....I looked for that errors list that I sent to the book publishers but I've not come across it yet |
| 28th May 2023, 7:59 PM | #28 REPORT | |
| Mike Wilson1 Musicologist Member since Dec 2019 26 Points | Many thanks for all your past help, my list is now as short as it has ever been: 1…I Hear A Rhapsody - Turner Layton Columbia FB 2666 2…Hey Little Hen - London Piano Accordeon Band Regal Zonophone MR 3501 3…My Sister & I - Royal Air Force Dance Orchestra Decca F7984 4…The White Cliffs Of Dover - Geraldo & His Orchestra Parlophone F 1900 5…Safe In My Heart - Turner Layton Columbia FB 2421 6 ..It’s Always You – Turner Layton Columbia FB 2614 7 ..Minnie From Trinidad – Harry Roy & His Band Regal Zonophone MR 3558 8…Only Forever – Turner Layton Columbia FB 2545 9…I Don’t Want To Set The World On Fire – Leslie Hutchinson HMV BD 972 10..And So Do I – Turner Layton Columbia FB 2563 11..When I Love I Love – Ambrose & His Orchestra Decca F 8090 12…Do You Care – Geraldo & His Orchestra Parlophone F 1889 13…By Candlelight – Turner Layton Columbia FB 2771 14…What Do We Care – Billy Cotton & His Band Rex R 10023 15…Goodnight Children Everywhere – Phyllis Robins Parlophone F 1643 16…My Daddy – Phyllis Robins Parlophone F 1703 17…Goodnight Children Everywhere – Issy Bonn HMV BD 797 18…Goodnight My Beautiful – Beryl Davis Decca F 7333 19....Dreaming – Beryl Davis Decca 7472 20.. If Tears Could Bring You Back – The Organ,The Dance Band & Me Parlophone F 1786 21….It’s Always You – Leslie Hutchinson HMV BD 929 22….You Stepped Out Of A Dream – Turner Layton Columbia FB 2713 |
| 29th May 2023, 4:46 PM | #29 REPORT | |
| mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1118 Points |
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
mister_tmg wrote:
danceband91 wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
If you were doing what I am trying to do what "Charts" would you use ? Addendum: Some of the sheet music had the individual artists on.....I have the same piece of sheet music, one with a Gracie Fields photograph and one with a Vera Lynn photo, same company.
I'm not sure I'd do anything different really - I don't know of any other UK charts that cover the period. I would probably focus on the Missing Charts book (trying to correct as many errors as possible), given it was actually based on record sales. I'd perhaps try and collect the B sides as well, since I'm not convinced the A sides have been correctly identified - e.g. the other side of Turner Layton's 'Safe In My Heart' is 'When You Wish Upon A Star', which I'd have thought would have been a much bigger hit. That would double the work however! I don't know how much I trust the sheet music charts on the Pop Music History site, without knowing exactly how it was devised. There are some real oddities there, e.g. Carter & Evans having the only charted version of 'One Dozen Roses', despite recordings by e.g. Carroll Gibbons and Joe Loss. I'd certainly never heard of Carter & Evans, and I doubt many people at the time would have done, given it was their first record! And then under 'You're Mine' it states 'sheet music only available', despite there being recordings by Oscar Rabin and Charlie Kunz (and probably others). And that's just from a quick glance at 1942! You may be onto something with the artists being specified on the sheet music itself. There were certainly many 'versions' of each piece of sheet music, with different artists on the covers (specifying 'as broadcast by', 'as recorded by' etc.). Perhaps whoever devised the Pop Music History site had access to data showing what different 'versions' were produced, and then chose from those the artists that had actually released a record. Right, well this perhaps explains why Mike has been looking for the Carter and Evans record. But as you suggest, why did the site author choose their version of One Dozen Roses? Curiously, there's no way of contacting the webmaster. Regarding You're Mine, perhaps those recordings hadn't been issued when the song was in the sheet music charts? Hence, "sheet music only" when it was a hit? That is a good point about artists featured on the sheet music perhaps being the more popular renditions of the songs. Although there's no listing of what sheet music was available, is there? The British Library do hold a lot, but I don't know if they have multiple editions of the same song. Personally, and especially given what I know about these errors, I'd rather stick to contemporary published charts. If there is ever anything you can think of that I may be able to do for you please mention it....I looked for that errors list that I sent to the book publishers but I've not come across it yet I will keep that in mind, thanks! You’re making me want to get those CLPGS books now. |
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Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45cat for 7" singles : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds