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The British Hit Singles Missing Charts January 1940 -1945   


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  27th Sep 2023, 11:45 PM#21  REPORT  
Mike Wilson1

Musicologist
Member since Dec 2019
26 Points
mister_tmg wrote:
Yes indeed, no malice intended, just trying to set the record straight (if you’ll pardon the pun). The book First Hits by Brian Henson & Colin Morgan covers sheet music sales from 1946 to 1959. Sheet music charts were published in the press from 1937 to 1965 (with gaps in the war). After 1965, the Music Publishers’ Association continued to compile the charts until the early 1980s.

I wonder what your specialist subject on Mastermind was, Mike.

Specialist subject was The History Of The F.A. Cup from 1871 (scored 29 points total, won my heat and went out in next round.....Try me !!!)


  28th Sep 2023, 2:29 PM#22  REPORT  
mister_tmg

Also on 78rpm
Member since Apr 2012
1118 Points
That’s interesting. Funnily enough, the author of Pop Music Hits 1939-1945, KL John (aka John Kobylecky), has also published books on football. You might find this book of interest: Pop Music Hits 1939-1945 https://amzn.eu/d/aBfdtms

Just to clarify, I have no interest in sport myself!


  29th Sep 2023, 4:55 PM#23  REPORT  
Mike Wilson1

Musicologist
Member since Dec 2019
26 Points
mister_tmg wrote:
That’s interesting. Funnily enough, the author of Pop Music Hits 1939-1945, KL John (aka John Kobylecky), has also published books on football. You might find this book of interest: Pop Music Hits 1939-1945 https://amzn.eu/d/aBfdtms

Just to clarify, I have no interest in sport myself!

Number 1. Think of a really well known Jukebox that begins with the letter W
Number 2. Then think of a really well known Rock & Roll song where the answer to Number 1 is the first word sung on the record ???


  30th Sep 2023, 4:02 PM#24  REPORT  
mister_tmg

Also on 78rpm
Member since Apr 2012
1118 Points
I’m struggling to think of a song which starts with “Wurlitzer”!


  30th Sep 2023, 10:15 PM#25  REPORT  
Mike Wilson1

Musicologist
Member since Dec 2019
26 Points
mister_tmg wrote:
I’m struggling to think of a song which starts with “Wurlitzer”!


Blue Suede Shoes........Wurlitzer one for the money, one for the show !!!!!!!


  1st Oct 2023, 2:18 AM#26  REPORT  
mister_tmg

Also on 78rpm
Member since Apr 2012
1118 Points
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
mister_tmg wrote:
I’m struggling to think of a song which starts with “Wurlitzer”!


Blue Suede Shoes........Wurlitzer one for the money, one for the show !!!!!!!

Must have missed that one!


  12th Oct 2023, 1:18 AM#27  REPORT  
mister_tmg

Also on 78rpm
Member since Apr 2012
1118 Points
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
danceband91 wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
Yes it is full of anomalies whichever way you look at it.....The whole idea is fraught with problems from start to finish.....I have noticed by using the book that New Entries only happened every third week on an extremely regular basis and some entries in the chart say "No particular artist named".....It is the best we have so I guess it is something, not ideal really.....Of the first 1100 "records" in the book I have all but 35 of them and 6 of those nobody has ever seen !!

I believe record companies were in the habit of releasing new records in batches, so that might explain why new entries occur mainly together. It's a shame that they don't make it abundantly clear where the information has come from, but perhaps they felt doing so would have opened them up to a unwanted level of scrutiny (or maybe they're not quite sure themselves!). But as you say, it's the best we have, so we'll have to live with it.

I must say I haven't come across any instances of "no particular artist named", but then again I'm using the second-hand information on this website: hitsofalldecades. I was assuming it was a faithful transcription of the book, but perhaps it's slightly different.

By the way, what are the 6 records that no-one has ever seen?

1. Goodnight Children Everywhere - Phyllis Robins Parlophone F 1643
2. My Daddy - Phyllis Robins Parlophone F 1703
3. If Tears Could Bring You Back - The Organ, The Dance Band & Me Parlophone F1786
4. By Candlelight - Turner Layton Columbia FB 2771
5. Dreaming -Beryl Davis Decca F 7472
6. Do You Care - Geraldo & His Orchestra Parlophone F 1889

Many have shown me these mentioned in listings and adverts but no 100% proof of anyone saying they have any of them, heard them or a photo of any of them.....Again I really would love to be wrong

So are these listed in the CLPGS label discographies? I do have a draft of the Parlophone listing, but not the other ones.


  12th Oct 2023, 10:09 AM#28  REPORT  
Mike Wilson1

Musicologist
Member since Dec 2019
26 Points
mister_tmg wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
danceband91 wrote:
Mike Wilson1 wrote:
Yes it is full of anomalies whichever way you look at it.....The whole idea is fraught with problems from start to finish.....I have noticed by using the book that New Entries only happened every third week on an extremely regular basis and some entries in the chart say "No particular artist named".....It is the best we have so I guess it is something, not ideal really.....Of the first 1100 "records" in the book I have all but 35 of them and 6 of those nobody has ever seen !!

I believe record companies were in the habit of releasing new records in batches, so that might explain why new entries occur mainly together. It's a shame that they don't make it abundantly clear where the information has come from, but perhaps they felt doing so would have opened them up to a unwanted level of scrutiny (or maybe they're not quite sure themselves!). But as you say, it's the best we have, so we'll have to live with it.

I must say I haven't come across any instances of "no particular artist named", but then again I'm using the second-hand information on this website: hitsofalldecades. I was assuming it was a faithful transcription of the book, but perhaps it's slightly different.

By the way, what are the 6 records that no-one has ever seen?

1. Goodnight Children Everywhere - Phyllis Robins Parlophone F 1643
2. My Daddy - Phyllis Robins Parlophone F 1703
3. If Tears Could Bring You Back - The Organ, The Dance Band & Me Parlophone F1786
4. By Candlelight - Turner Layton Columbia FB 2771
5. Dreaming -Beryl Davis Decca F 7472
6. Do You Care - Geraldo & His Orchestra Parlophone F 1889

Many have shown me these mentioned in listings and adverts but no 100% proof of anyone saying they have any of them, heard them or a photo of any of them.....Again I really would love to be wrong

So are these listed in the CLPGS label discographies? I do have a draft of the Parlophone listing, but not the other ones.

Yes....This is the mystery.....That they are all published titles but having contacted every resource and collector that I know which runs to many hundreds not one has been able to confirm having heard them or a photo, which would clinch the argument

Edited by moderator on 12th Oct 2023, 2:35 PM

  16th Oct 2023, 12:17 AM#29  REPORT  
Appletree1 SUBS

ILR Top 40 charts please!
Member since Mar 2015
81 Points
The book is NOT based on either sheet music sales or record sales. It is based on the amounts of records sent out to record shops. Or shipping figures. For example all the Christmas records, some of which show as top, ALL vanish from the chart after Christmas. The shops stopped ordering them! Or the record companies stopped sending them out. Records were issued in the first week or second week of each month. So the chart fills up with hits those weeks. The book is good for telling you when a record was issued. It tells you how many records were ordered by shops, it doesn't tell you how many each shop sold. Or what the public were buying. Though there is a link between orders and sales. It's not very good at listing the most popular side. And if you look at the record listed in the book, it was clearly the other side of the record that the public were after and the song in the sheet music chart at the time. It has an advantage over the Sheet Music charts in that it features tunes that would not have Sheet Music, such as orchestral tunes, like The Dick Barton Theme!


  17th Oct 2023, 1:27 AM#30  REPORT  
mister_tmg

Also on 78rpm
Member since Apr 2012
1118 Points
Appletree1 wrote:
The book is NOT based on either sheet music sales or record sales. It is based on the amounts of records sent out to record shops. Or shipping figures. For example all the Christmas records, some of which show as top, ALL vanish from the chart after Christmas. The shops stopped ordering them! Or the record companies stopped sending them out. Records were issued in the first week or second week of each month. So the chart fills up with hits those weeks. The book is good for telling you when a record was issued. It tells you how many records were ordered by shops, it doesn't tell you how many each shop sold. Or what the public were buying. Though there is a link between orders and sales. It's not very good at listing the most popular side. And if you look at the record listed in the book, it was clearly the other side of the record that the public were after and the song in the sheet music chart at the time. It has an advantage over the Sheet Music charts in that it features tunes that would not have Sheet Music, such as orchestral tunes, like The Dick Barton Theme!
Yes, that's what I thought - the book is based on shipments. As you say, there is a link between orders and sales. I wonder how shops decided what to buy.

Devil's Galop did have sheet music, see eBay listing. I'm not sure if light orchestral music was less likely to be successful as sheet music than on record.


  17th Oct 2023, 11:17 AM#31  REPORT  
Appletree1 SUBS

ILR Top 40 charts please!
Member since Mar 2015
81 Points
The Shops would have had record company reps telling them, plus most shops were dealers and like car dealers they only sold that record company products. There would be customer feedback too, people asking for a a record or tune. They would also know the sheet music charts and I suspect they would base it also on how many sheet music they sold too.
It's interesting to know that Woolworth's orders were included and no chart had their sales till 1975.


  17th Oct 2023, 11:45 AM#32  REPORT  
mister_tmg

Also on 78rpm
Member since Apr 2012
1118 Points
Appletree1 wrote:
The Shops would have had record company reps telling them, plus most shops were dealers and like car dealers they only sold that record company products. There would be customer feedback too, people asking for a a record or tune. They would also know the sheet music charts and I suspect they would base it also on how many sheet music they sold too.
It's interesting to know that Woolworth's orders were included and no chart had their sales till 1975.
That may be why Embassy records weren’t included in the charts!


  17th Oct 2023, 3:55 PM#33  REPORT  
Appletree1 SUBS

ILR Top 40 charts please!
Member since Mar 2015
81 Points
mister_tmg wrote:
That may be why Embassy records weren’t included in the charts!

Precisely why they were not included!


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