It's interesting to look at the earliest 'official' (NME) UK #1 hits and note when the records were released, and then when they charted. "Here in My Heart" and "You Belong to Me" appear to have charted in the month they were released, based on The Missing Charts book. "Comes a-Long a-Love" and "Outside of Heaven" appeared to take a bit longer to chart, although we have no data for the first two weeks in November.
"She Wears Red Feathers" actually charted a month before the release date of March 1953 given in the CLPGS Columbia DB series book, although First Hits (the sheet music chart book by Brian Henson and Colin Morgan) gives the month of February 1953. I wonder why. The other records I've looked at so far do seem to have charted the same month or the following month.
I wonder if it was typical for these hit records in the 78rpm era to start selling almost as soon as they were released. It would be interesting to have all the data on this to analyse. I suppose I got the impression that 78s were more of a 'slow burn' sales-wise, but maybe that isn't the case. Did The Missing Charts hit records usually chart the month they were released?
It would also be interesting to see which records might have taken a longer time to chart. "Bluebell Polka" by Jimmy Shand and "Don't Laugh At Me" by Norman Wisdom had been released a while before they officially charted in the UK, but I think those were resurgent sales of records which had already sold before the chart started.
However, "Rose Marie" by Slim Whitman seems to have taken a year to chart from its original July 1954 release date.
With going through the Missing Charts Book I notice most strongly that there is a pattern to new releases that seem to occur on a very regular basis every third week........Release dates would seem to form the same pattern.....Advertising dates are very different as I have found examples of records being advertised as New releases when they were already well up in the chart and some occasions when discs were advertised but then charted 8 months later !!!!!
mister_tmg wrote:
It's interesting to look at the earliest 'official' (NME) UK #1 hits and note when the records were released, and then when they charted. "Here in My Heart" and "You Belong to Me" appear to have charted in the month they were released, based on The Missing Charts book. "Comes a-Long a-Love" and "Outside of Heaven" appeared to take a bit longer to chart, although we have no data for the first two weeks in November.
"She Wears Red Feathers" actually charted a month before the release date of March 1953 given in the CLPGS Columbia DB series book, although First Hits (the sheet music chart hit) gives the month of February 1953. I wonder why. The other records I've looked at so far do seem to have charted the same month or the following month.
I wonder if it was typical for these hit records in the 78rpm era to start selling almost as soon as they were released. It would be interesting to have all the data on this to analyse. I suppose I got the impression that 78s were more of a 'slow burn' sales-wise, but maybe that isn't the case. Did The Missing Charts hit records usually chart the month they were released?
It would also be interesting to see which records might have taken a longer time to chart. "Bluebell Polka" by Jimmy Shand and "Don't Laugh At Me" by Norman Wisdom had been released a while before they officially charted in the UK, but I think those were resurgent sales of records which had already sold before the chart started.
However, "Rose Marie" by Slim Whitman seems to have taken a year to chart from its original July 1954 release date.
"She Wears Red Feathers" actually charted a month before the release date of March 1953 given in the CLPGS Columbia DB series book, although First Hits (the sheet music chart hit) gives the month of February 1953. I wonder why. The other records I've looked at so far do seem to have charted the same month or the following month.
I suspect it would have been a mid-February release, which Newspapers seem to confirm. The EMI labels released the majority of records at the beginning of the month, but would sometimes put out mid-month special releases of single records (e.g. for records predicted to be very popular) or batches or records (e.g. before Christmas). The 'official' release date of these, however, would have been the following month, corresponding to the monthly supplement in which they would have appeared. This is why you sometimes see Christmas-themed records with a release date of January, despite obviously having being released before Christmas! I suspect the CLPGS book lists the official release dates, obtained perhaps from supplements or from trade catalogues.
On the other hand, the Decca group seem to have made a habit of releasing two supplements a month - one at the beginning of the month and the other mid-month. I think this probably accounts for a lot of the records that enter the charts towards the end of the month (at least in the Missing Charts book).
mister_tmg wrote:
I wonder if it was typical for these hit records in the 78rpm era to start selling almost as soon as they were released. It would be interesting to have all the data on this to analyse. I suppose I got the impression that 78s were more of a 'slow burn' sales-wise, but maybe that isn't the case. Did The Missing Charts hit records usually chart the month they were released?
Of the entries in the Missing Charts book for which I have accurate release dates (roughly 1500), 88% charted in the month they were released, 8% 1 month later, and 4% more than 1 month later. The majority of the records in the latter two categories are Brunswick and Decca releases, and interestingly the reviews in The Gramophone for almost all of these are also delayed relative to the release. The Gramophone does often note that the Decca group records have failed to arrive, so perhaps there was sometimes a delay from the time of announcement (in the monthly supplement) to actually getting the records released.
On the flip side, there are 16 records that chart before official release. Some of these will probably be mid-month releases but others are definitely mistakes in the book.
mister_tmg wrote:
It would also be interesting to see which records might have taken a longer time to chart. "Bluebell Polka" by Jimmy Shand and "Don't Laugh At Me" by Norman Wisdom had been released a while before they officially charted in the UK, but I think those were resurgent sales of records which had already sold before the chart started.
However, "Rose Marie" by Slim Whitman seems to have taken a year to chart from its original July 1954 release date.
It would certainly be an interesting project to compare charting and release dates for the NME chart. There is almost always a reason for records charting significantly 'late'. For example, "Don't Laugh At Me" was sung by Norman Wisdom in his debut film "Trouble In Store", which was released on 28-Dec-53, which explains the recharting in February. "The Bluebell Polka" had a revival in late 1955 (although I don't why), with new recordings made by e.g. Ron Goodwin and Ambrose released in Nov-55 (I understand the latter was very popular although didn't chart). Slim Whitman's "Rose Marie" is an odd case, but Newspapers put its re-found popularity down to a sudden craze in Hillbilly / Country & Western music (perhaps kicked off by Frankie Laine's "Cool Water"?)
Mike, I haven't looked at The Missing Charts in huge detail, but I think I've read that new entries seem to chart at the beginning of each month? I would assume that when the record companies did monthly new releases, the records were available from the start of each month. Given that the book is based on shipments to stores (ie. what the shops were buying, rather than customers), perhaps that makes sense - as soon as new product was available, the stores would order it in.
I was hoping you would see this thread, Peter! Yes, perhaps I've seen 'mid-month' releases listed before. I do have a load of British record company new release leaflets from this period. I'd scan them all if I had time. Thanks for your explanation of the 'official' release date being the following month for those mid-month issues. Christmas records released in January would indeed be odd.
I believe the CLPGS had access to EMI Archives and other record company data for doing these books, so the information could have been from EMI's own sources. For Decca, I don't know if that's the case, and the CLPGS F series listing has some records which probably weren't even released. It also fails to list Twenty / Summertime In Venice by Gracie Fields (Decca F 10614) - I don't have the book, but looked at it in the British Library. Instead it lists Ballyhoo / Cloudburst by Ted Heath under this number. Take 2 of the latter title came out on F 10624, coupled with Malagueña. I can only guess that the Gracie record was a late addition to the catalogue, and maybe the Ted Heath disc was originally planned for F 10614.
It's interesting to learn that most records in TMC charted in the month of release, which doesn't surprise me (and I'd assume it was because of shops ordering new stock when it became available).
The records charting before their official release seems odd - it makes you wonder how reliable the book is, although maybe there's a reasonable explanation.
I would have guessed that the Norman Wisdom record charting in the NME was because of a film he did. I have heard that "Rose Marie" did well thanks to an enthusiastic song-plugger, although I could be mixing it up with "Give Me Your Word" (another 'cowboy ballad'!).
It would certainly be an interesting project to compare charting and release dates for the NME chart.
A spreadsheet listing this would be good, which could then be analysed. I guess the Britburn spreadsheet would be a good starting point, and the release dates could then be added in... quite a task, I know! I'd help out if anyone else had a go. Covering the NME chart era would probably be a good start, as that's the era of more interest to us.
I wonder when the industry moved away from monthly new releases, or was it a gradual thing?
When I was following the charts in the late 90s and early 2000s, it was the norm for new singles to be released every Monday, and appear in that Sunday's chart countdown. By that point, it was the norm for singles to peak in their first week of release.
On the flip side, there are 16 records that chart before official release. Some of these will probably be mid-month releases but others are definitely mistakes in the book.
So we only need a quick list of these 16 to work out what happend, most likely the sales sheets catching up to reality rather than a planned world
I would assume that when the record companies did monthly new releases, the records were available from the start of each month. Given that the book is based on shipments to stores (ie. what the shops were buying, rather than customers), perhaps that makes sense - as soon as new product was available, the stores would order it in.
Yes, I think that makes sense - the charts basically follow the monthly supplements. In fact there are occasions where records chart at the beginning of the month despite being physically released only later in the month, e.g. the first batch of MGM records were only available from 23-Jan-48, but were charting at the start of January.
Given the charts are based on orders, we should perhaps take records that charted for only 1 week at the beginning of the month with a pinch of salt. These must have sold less well than predicted, given that the shops did not have to top up their initial orders (based presumably on predicted sales), at least not significantly enough to continue charting.
mister_tmg wrote:
I believe the CLPGS had access to EMI Archives and other record company data for doing these books, so the information could have been from EMI's own sources. For Decca, I don't know if that's the case, and the CLPGS F series listing has some records which probably weren't even released. It also fails to list Twenty / Summertime In Venice by Gracie Fields (Decca F 10614) - I don't have the book, but looked at it in the British Library. Instead it lists Ballyhoo / Cloudburst by Ted Heath under this number. Take 2 of the latter title came out on F 10624, coupled with Malagueña. I can only guess that the Gracie record was a late addition to the catalogue, and maybe the Ted Heath disc was originally planned for F 10614.
Good to know that the data for the CLPGS Columbia books are from the original source - they would definitely have the 'official' release date then. Sounds like the Decca F-16014 entry is maybe just a mistake. What are the records it lists that were probably not released?
mister_tmg wrote:
A spreadsheet listing this would be good, which could then be analysed. I guess the Britburn spreadsheet would be a good starting point, and the release dates could then be added in... quite a task, I know! I'd help out if anyone else had a go. Covering the NME chart era would probably be a good start, as that's the era of more interest to us.
What period does the NME chart era cover? Up until 1960? Getting started wouldn't be too difficult I think. As you say, the Britburn spreadsheet has all the catalogue numbers, and date78 has dates for most of Columbia, HMV & Parlophone for the 50s (although there may be a few errors). It would be just a matter of a few hours to populate the spreadsheet with those dates. I might have a go at it. I suppose some of the later ones would only have been released on 45.
Pridesale wrote:
So we only need a quick list of these 16 to work out what happend, most likely the sales sheets catching up to reality rather than a planned world
I'll hold off putting out a list until I've got release dates for all the records, and once I've double-checked the data.
Perhaps if retailers knew of records like the MGM releases before they came out, they could order them in advance?
I’d agree with what you say about records which only charted for a week at the beginning of the month.
This is one unissued 78 in the Decca book:
Decca F 7264, November 1939
Jessie MATTHEWS, vocal, with ORCHESTRA, cond. Jay WILBUR
DR3771-1-2 20. 7.39 I Feel Like A Stranger (Harry Woods)
DR3772-1 20. 7.39 Riviera Romp (Harry Woods)
I collect Jessie’s records, as I’m quite a big fan of hers. Hence me looking her up in the book. It isn’t listed in the comprehensive discography in her biography. The tracks were from a stage production, I Can Take It, which was cancelled when war broke out, in between the recording and release date. I would assume it was cancelled. Shame that it most likely doesn’t exist now.
The other one in the book I noticed is F-10290 by Vera Lynn. Both titles recorded 23 March 1953: The Homecoming Waltz (DR 18817) was issued, but the other side, My Homeland (DR 18818), does not appear to have been released on the 78 that was pressed. Instead, it has Humble People, the next Decca master (DR 18819) in the sequence, which was recorded the following day.
It appears that the compilers of the book may not have consulted Decca’s new release listings to cross- check the data with.
Well, the NME continued to publish their own charts into the 1970s or even later. However, the Guinness books and OCC use Record Retailer from 1960 onwards. I’m sure I’m aware of date78 - or am I? I have those programs which can date 78s. Probably from this forum. At least with the 1950s dates, the release dates aren’t likely to be hard to find. They’re probably all in First Hits, The Ballad Years or 45cat/worlds. I’d be very interested to see such a listing.
Another interesting comparison with more modern charts would be to list the singles which failed to chart, or at least how many there were, for charting artists. The Stargazers had two consecutive number ones in 1953/54, but they had three non-charting singles in between those. I think perhaps after Elvis, it would have been rather more unusual for popular artists to have non-charting singles (though the chart had increased in size by then). I was just reading about the late Frank Ifield, and he apparently had several flops after his first hit single.
Well, the NME continued to publish their own charts into the 1970s or even later. However, the Guinness books and OCC use Record Retailer from 1960 onwards. I’m sure I’m aware of date78 - or am I? I have those programs which can date 78s. Probably from this forum. At least with the 1950s dates, the release dates aren’t likely to be hard to find. They’re probably all in First Hits, The Ballad Years or 45cat/worlds. I’d be very interested to see such a listing.
date78 is scrough's 78 dating software. The latest version can be found in this topic. There used to be separate programs for each label (e.g. dateHMV) but they're all combined into one now.
I've put together an amended version of the Britburn spreadsheet for the period 1952-59, and added in the release dates extracted from date78, The Ballad Years and 45worlds/cat, as well as a few official release dates I had already. Any remaining gaps (of which there were very few) I've filled in with Newspaper review dates. The dates are only as accurate as the sources, however, and there are a few cases where there are conflicting dates, but it's a start anyway. I'll send it over to you.