78 RPM - The Benson Orchestra Of Chicago - Tuck Me To Sleep In My Old 'Tucky Home / Wabash Blues - Victor - USA

78 RPM Record

Artist:	The Benson Orchestra Of Chicago
Label:	Victor
Country:	USA
Catalogue:	18820
Date:	Dec 1921
Format:	10"
Collection:	I Own It I Want It
Community:	10 Own
Price Guide:	$6
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PRICE GUIDE

Track	Artist	Title	Composer	Rating
A	The Benson Orchestra Of Chicago	Tuck Me To Sleep In My Old 'Tucky Home	Lewis, Young, Meyer	Rate
B	The Benson Orchestra Of Chicago	Wabash Blues	Fred Meinken	Rate

Notes

Under the Direction of Roy Bargy

A side (mx. B-25707, take 2 and 3) recorded Chicago, IL, September 30, 1921.
B side (mx. B-25703, take 1 and 4) recorded Chicago, IL, September 29, 1921.
(DAHR)

Earliest copies credit lyricist Ringle on B; Ringle copy runout:
A side runout: F 18820A 2 (= take 2)
B side runout: E 18820B 1 (= take 1)

Images

Number: 580261

THUMBNAIL
Uploaded By: coveboy
Description: Victor 18820 A side label (repress without Ringle credit on the B side)

Number: 580263

Uploaded By: coveboy
Description: Victor 18820 B side label (repress without Ringle credit)

Number: 1233403

Uploaded By: Bob1951
Description: No Description

Comments and Reviews


fixbutte 23rd Jun 2022		It's apparently still the same today, xiphophilos. On further research I have found an interesting link to the General Royalty Information of BMI, stating that - songwriters get one half of the royalties and publishers (who may be identical to the songwriters) get the other half - lyricist and composer generally get one half of the songwriters' share each, regardless whether it is an instrumental or vocal (lyric) performance of the song, if not the lyric and instrumental versions are known by different titles.



xiphophilos 23rd Jun 2022		You are probably right, fixbutte, that a lyricist can claim 25% of the royalties even if only the instrumental version of a song is actually performed or recorded. In fact, that was music publisher Walter Melrose's scam, as explained in Howard Reich and William Gaines, "The Great Jazz Swindle", Chicago Tribune, December 11, 1999. Melrose published Jelly Roll Morton's songs, which entitled him to 50% of the royalties. But on top of that, he could claim another 25% of the royalties because within a few months of filing the original copyright for some of Morton's greatest hits, "Milenberg Joys," "Sidewalk Blues," "Sweetheart O' Mine" and "Dixie Knows," he added some inept lyrics of his own to these songs and copyrighted them without Morton's knowledge or consent. Melrose similarly scammed other musicians. He added lyrics to Earl Hines' "Midnight in New Orleans" and "Lazy Mornin"', Charlie Davis' "Copenhagen", the New Orleans Rhythm Kings' "Tin Roof Blues," and Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman and Frank Trumbauer's "High Society."



fixbutte 22nd Jun 2022		xiphophilos wrote: Lyricist Ringle shouldn't have his name credited at all since this is an instrumental version without lyrics. Is it so when lyrics and melody were copyrighted together? Should a lyricist not be entitled to claim royalties for an instrumental version of a song? Many songs would not exist without the lyrics because the music was created in view of them, or because composer and lyricist were interacting. I don't know however what the legal situation is.



fixbutte 22nd Jun 2022		xiphophilos wrote: In fact, the lyrics and the melody had been copyrighted together on September 16, 1921, 13 days before this Victor recording was made, according to the Catalog of Copyright Entries (1922), page 1316. Interesting, I should have researched that before posting. Does it have an effect on the recording date discussion for Isham Jones' original version of "Wabash Blues" on Brunswick 5065? (released after September 16, 1921 anyway)



xiphophilos 22nd Jun 2022		"It appears that both types of writing credits were used contemporaneously." Yes, but note that most of the Nov./Dec. 1921 releases you quote from the Talking Machine World solely credit Meinken - because most of them are instrumental numbers. The only exceptions are Lucille Hegemon's vocal version on Arto, where a Meinken-Ringle credit makes sense, and the "Club Maurice Orchestra" (name on the label per B. Rust) version on the rare Olympic label. That latter case seems to be another credit for lyricist Ringle on a purely instrumental version. None of this, just to be clear, has any bearing on deciding whether Victor 18820 was first released with the Ringle-Meinken credit or just the Meinken credit. The stamper numbers that I listed below, though, do tell the story, and they indicate that the double credit came first.



cyeaman SUBS 21st Jun 2022		It is interesting to note several renditions of "Wabash Blues" in November & December 1921 issues of Talking Machine World (link). A vocal recording by Lucille Hegamin (Arto 9105) and an instrumental version by "Club Maurice Dance Orchestra" (Olympic 15133) credit both Ringle and Meiken (sic), whereas other instrumental versions by "Merry Melody Men" (Emerson 10468), Newport Society Orchestra (Aeolian 14262) or Broadway Dance Orchestra (Edison 50874) credit only Meinken. Many other renditions of this tune were released on several different labels that credit neither writer in TMW. It appears that both types of writing credits were used contemporaneously.



xiphophilos 21st Jun 2022		Lyricist "Dave Ringle's name was added later because there were no lyrics to the melody when these recordings were made." In fact, the lyrics and the melody had been copyrighted together on September 16, 1921, 13 days before this Victor recording was made, according to the Catalog of Copyright Entries (1922), page 1316. Regarding Columbia's practices, I've noticed that Columbia records at the time frequently only list the composer, not the lyricist(s). Apart from Dolly Kay's sung version on Columbia A3534 that you mention, there are many other examples, e.g., the other 1921 hit on this Victor record, "Tuck Me To Sleep In My Old Kentucky Home". On the Columbia version Columbia A3465 even a vocal duet does not convince Columbia of the need to list anyone else but composer (George W.) Meyer (the lyricists were Sam Lewis and Joe Young). Another example is the Al Jolson number "April Showers" on Columbia A3500, where lyricist Buddy G. DeSylva is left out on the A side (but not on the sheet music). On the B side, Vernon Dalhart sings "Weep No More", and again, the lyricists Sidney D. Mitchell and Sydney Clare are not credited.(sheet music) We'll probably won't know for sure until we see the stamper numbers / letters on one of the more frequent releases without the Ringle credit, but I continue to think that the Ringle credit was in error and removed for later represses. For what it's worth, a Meinken-credit-only version offered on amazon has the stamper 3L. Another shown by the Internet Archive has an even higher stamper number, 10U or 1OU. A copy currently on eBay has a 3-digit/letter combination too. cyeaman's copy with the Ringle credit, in contrast, features a simple stamper letter E (Discogs), so it should be earlier than the other copies.



fixbutte 21st Jun 2022		I'd rather guess that Dave Ringle's name was added later because there were no lyrics to the melody when these recordings were made and even when the record was released. The presumably first vocal version of "Wabash Blues" was recorded by white vaudeville blues singer Dolly Kay on December 22, 1921, but it was still credited only to "Meinken" as composer when it was released on Columbia A3534 in February 1922. Whereas Dave Ringle actually was the writer of the lyrics, Fred Meinken wasn't the composer of the melody though. An early jazz standard by an unknown author, it was originally called "The Trombone Jazz" and was orchestrated in 1918 by Joseph E. Maddy who brought it to the attention of Isham Jones - who would make the most popular instrumental recording of "Wabash Blues" with his orchestra in August 1921 (Brunswick 5065), see Wikipedia.



xiphophilos 20th Jun 2022		"Wabash Blues" was a huge hit in 1921-22. The Benson Orchestra of Chicago version supposedly sold more than 750,000 copies (Joseph Murrels, The Book of Golden Discs, London 1978, page 12), although the Victor Talking Machine Company's own blue history card lists "only" 163,194 sold copies.(DAHR) [still a huge number, of course]. Lyricist Ringle shouldn't have his name credited at all since this is an instrumental version without lyrics. From what I can see online, the corrected version without his name is the more common one. My guess is that Ringle was originally credited by mistake. When the record took off, Meinken insisted that the name was removed so he wouldn't have to share his royalties with the lyricist.



slholzer 16th Jan 2017		Actually, unless we know which label was the earlier, we don't know whether Ringle was added or subtracted as a composer. John Bolig sheds no direct light on it in his "Victor Black Label Discography 18000-19000 Series". He shows Ringle and Meinken as the correct composers, but doesn't discuss the omission from or addition to the label of a composer. It is interesting to note, however, that there were two takes of each side used on Victor 18820. Both Bolig and Rust report this, although Bolig says both takes of "Wabash Blues" were cut on Sept. 29, while Rust says the 1st was made on Sept. 29 and the other (the 4th) on Sept. 30. We may reasonably speculate, therefore, that the label change and the switch in takes on "Wabash Blues" occurred simultaneously. Bolig indicates that the 4th take was used on 7 different HMV releases, while the 1st take only ever saw the light of day on Victor 18820. As much information as Rust had at hand conforms to this. This, plus the fact that at least 4 takes were actually made, suggests that the first take was probably the one that was replaced, and that perhaps it should never have been released at all. We can't know that to a certainty, of course, but auditing an exemplar of each take (and noting the label variant associated with each) might allow us to identify a sufficiently large flaw in one or the other to warrant the switch and establish the probable "direction" of the time arrow from one take (and label) to the other. Conversely, the lack of any major flaw would increase the probability that the change(s) occurred in the course of time as the record (which Bolig reports stayed in the catalog for six years) was sold out and re-pressed. Possibly the preferred matrix was lost or deemed unsuitable for further use due to wear and tear or somebody simply goofed and used the wrong matrix and/or printed the label without all the appropriate composer credits.



Bob1951 3rd Jan 2017		Side B Label variant added. Dave Ringle added to composers.



BigBadBluesMan 28th Jan 2015



BigBadBluesMan 28th Jan 2015