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78 RPM Record

Artist: Roger Wolfe Kahn And His Hotel Biltmore Orchestra Label:   Victor Country: USA Catalogue: 19616 Date: 24 Apr 1925 Format: 10" Collection:   I Own It     I Want It  Community:  3 Own Price Guide: Valuation Page » Search eBay #AD  » Search Amazon #AD This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated.

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Track	Artist	Title	Composer	Rating
A	Roger Wolfe Kahn And His Hotel Biltmore Orchestra	Yearning (Just For You)	Benny Davis, Joe Burke	8.0  Rate
B	Roger Wolfe Kahn And His Hotel Biltmore Orchestra	Hot-Hot-Hottentot	Fred Fisher	9.0  Rate

Notes

A: with Vocal Refrain

A runout: 2 G19616A (= take 2);
B runout: 2 G19616B (= take 2).
Both recorded New York, NY, March 10, 1925 (DAHR).
Cutout date: 1926.

Listed in Talking Machine World, May 15, 1925, p. 157 (Advance Record Bulletins for June, 1925: Victor List for April 24).

Images

Number: 1250393  THUMBNAIL Uploaded By: xiphophilos Description: Victor 19616 A side label (Oakland, CA, pressing)

Number: 1250394  Uploaded By: xiphophilos Description: Victor 19616 B side label (Oakland, CA, pressing)

Comments and Reviews

xiphophilos 8th Feb 2017		Thanks for both of your efforts to clarify the matter. I had overlooked that the heading of the Victor list literally says "List for April 24".
fixbutte 8th Feb 2017		In this specific case we can definitely say that the record, not just the list, came out on April 24, 1925, a Friday like all other Victor releases of the time, because that date was before the Talking Machine World issue publication date and most probably even before its copy deadline. As said in my earlier comment linked by xiphophilos, the "Advance" part of the report headline in TMW should not be taken too literally, at least not in 1925 anymore. Records listed in a record company's monthly catalog were generally released some days or even weeks earlier *, what doesn't necessarily mean that they were all available nationwide then. On this basis I have changed the text in brackets after the link in the Notes above from "Advance Record Bulletins for June 1925" to "Advance Record Bulletins - List for April 24" and corrected the release date accordingly. _______________ * sometimes already sold out locally, see my comments on Columbia 14023-D.
slholzer 8th Feb 2017		After consulting the Talking Machine World list tagged in the notes, I realized that I had mis-entered Bolig's proposed release date as April 14. I have edited the original comment to read April 24, 1926, which is, in fact, the date Bolig offered, as well as the date reported in the Talking Machine World for the list that included Victor 19616. I think that pretty well answers the question as to why Bolig chose that date. I would also note that the extra ten days moves that proposed date into the exact 6-7 week average recording-to-market time that Bolig reports for Victor products. This raises the question of how one should interpret information of this sort. I still think Bolig probably had the original source in the form of an actual Victor list or supplement. We, unfortunately, are not so privileged. Like an archaeologist who arrives at a site after the treasure hunters have been there, we are deprived of the appropriate context. We must make such inferences as we can from incomplete information, some of which probably represents the inferences others have already made from information that is now lacking. It is not, and never will be, an ideal situation. What can anyone tell us about original Victor supplements and release lists? Is the date a "promised by" date, or just the date the list was issued. Are there individual release dates shown that would allow Talking Machine World to drop the separate records into the appropriate monthly advance release list? Are we inferring more from the month shown at the head of the advance listing than we really should or is it pretty much dead on?
slholzer 8th Feb 2017		That, unfortunately, I cannot answer. Bolig does not address that particular point in his introductory essays. It is clear, however, that he worked extensively with the RCA files. The fact that he gives not only release dates but cut-out dates is suggestive that he had access to a large and reasonably complete set of Victor catalogues. The provision of specific release dates as opposed to the month and year that were more commonly provided with earlier issues suggest that he was referring to a similar store of Victor dealer supplements or release lists, which bore such dates by the time this record was released. I would not care to speculate on what other sources there might be in the Victor files that lead to his conclusion, but there certainly could be others. Nevertheless, a dated list or supplement would seem the most likely explanation. Sometimes the date of the Victor list is given in Talking Machine World announcements, sometimes it's not. A late arrival or delay in publication along with the omission of the original list date could easily create the perception that the record was coming out in June when in fact it was already available and had been since the previous month. Given its position in the industry, I hardly think the Talking Machine World would want to publicize such a failing on its part if it actually happened. All that being said, it is worth noting that Bolig comments elsewhere that the Victor company was extremely efficient as record companies go. Titles were assigned and sometimes labels were even produced before recording sessions took place. Perhaps the greatest delay in getting records pressed was waiting for the appropriate approvals from the artists themselves. If everything went very well, a record might be pressed within days of being recorded, but Bolig reports that Victor made it to the market on average six or seven weeks after the recording date. In this case, April 14 is about five weeks post-recording: a little earlier than average but probably within the normal range. A May date would be a little more laggardly than average but probably also within the normal range, although possibly less so than the April date, depending on how far into May you push it.
xiphophilos 8th Feb 2017		The record was announced in the May 15, 1925 issue of The Talking Machine World for June 1925 (see the link I've just added to the Notes above). As fixbutte says here, it is far more likely that it actually came out at some point in May, not in June. I wonder what evidence motivated Bolig to move the release date yet another month forward to April 1925.
slholzer 8th Feb 2017		John Bolig's Victor Black Label Discography 18000/1900 Series, shows the release date as April 24, 1925. The mx for Side A is B-32077-2. The mx for side B is B-32076-2.
xiphophilos 28th Jan 2017		A side:
xiphophilos 28th Jan 2017		B side:

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