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| 7th Feb 2015, 10:23 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | Should these album cover images be hidden due to the sensitive nature of the material as well as possible legal issues in Germany GSL2691 M621 Amy |
| 7th Feb 2015, 10:31 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | TheJudge In-house specialist in drive-by moddings. Member since Dec 2012 3715 Points Moderator | I was wondering that when I was uploading them, to be honest. Regarding the legal issues in Germany, there must be thousands of websites in the world with similar imagery on them. I can't imagine the German authorities going after all of them. Either way, I'm easy about it. |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:03 PM | #3 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | I was just wondering if the label should be the primary image and cover second -- or at most hidden. Plus I would not want to offend any one who lost family due to the atrocities of the era Amy |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:07 PM | #4 REPORT | |
 | Charlie Chalk Self praise is no recommendation. Member since Oct 2011 45189 Points Moderator | I'm with you - perhaps the covers ought to be hidden. |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:08 PM | #5 REPORT | |
| TheJudge In-house specialist in drive-by moddings. Member since Dec 2012 3715 Points Moderator | I've gone in and made them NSFW ("National Socialists - F***ing Wankers")  |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:27 PM | #6 REPORT | |
 | TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | Disagree. They are just record sleeves, not an endorsement of the politics. They serve as a reminder of that dark episode in human history. No sense in hiding them that I can see. |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:31 PM | #7 REPORT | |
| Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator | For that matter nearly every album cover we have here offends the Moslems because it shows a human face. How far do you want to go? |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:36 PM | #8 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | For that matter (too) the Bible forbids making any likeness of anything on the earth (Exodus chapter 20, verse 4) - one of several commandments the church just plain ignores. So every image on the site should offend anyone who believes in the Christian God. |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:42 PM | #9 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | Personally I was more concerned about running afoul of German law than anything Amy |
| 7th Feb 2015, 11:46 PM | #10 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | Fair point, but there are countless stamp collector sites, not to mention Ebay etc, which carry images of Third Reich stamps featuring swastikas, Hitler's effigy and so on. I don't think there is a realistic legal issue, although I will say that I respect your motives as well as your views. I would hate to even remotely promote such things, but here we are documenting our corner of history through music - and these things do exist. |
| 8th Feb 2015, 12:12 AM | #11 REPORT | |
 | Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | When looking at anything historical ( records in the most literal sense), you're bound to run into this quandry sooner or later... But that's what they are: records. Most would feel distinctly uneasy about them, but I personally feel just as uneasy about the modern inclination to "Airbrush" history. Either by modifying and amending things like this (Dishonest), or ignoring them, and pretending they don't exist (Not necessarily dihonest, but certainly Dangerous). I often wonder what the point of all those monuments commemorating those events is, if we ignore the phrase most often inscribed on them: "Lest We Forget". If you allow these things to fall away unnoticed, even... no, ESPECIALLY the bad things, there is precisely the danger of this warning (as well as rememberance as an act of gratitude) going unheeded, and open the door to the possibility of them happening again. But it's easy to see the concern here, when the general climate of popular sensibility is to express furoious misplaced outrage over concepts that it seems to me, they have failed to grasp: Presentation and promotion of an idea or fact are two entirely separate things. I watch the news every day, I do not presume that the newsreader is a member of ISIS because they report on them, and do not express a view one way or the other. It seems if this is the standard, there'll be very little left of history or records for anyone to present, over and above what TopPopper acurately observes, shall we pretend that nobody used to smoke, or that attitudes in times gone by were anything less than of the highest moral scruples? formerly popular entertainers and disc jockeys etc. of the seventies and so on? Imagine those inexplicable gaps in the catalogue: "Mummy/Daddy, why does the Decca catalouge of records jump five spaces to the next one?" Twenty years form now: "What's the problem with these Nazis mummy, history doesn't show anything about them?" "...erm, that's because we erased it all... so it never happened"". Boy the world sucks doesn't it?!!! |
| 8th Feb 2015, 1:29 AM | #12 REPORT | |
| Pridesale Member since Mar 2013 805 Points |
Jock_Girl wrote:
Are these LPs issues of things that really were from the 1930s/40s ( I thought Mr Hitler had a general dis-like of most music and it was sort of banned , apart from certain bands/ styles). Or are they meant as sarcastic wind-up 'comedy' items much later on their release dates? |
| 8th Feb 2015, 8:51 AM | #13 REPORT | |
 | nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator | Just to point out that no records are deleted from any area of 45Worlds or 45Cat regardless of their ideology - though we can and do prevent certain releases from appearing on high volume pages including the home page, top 50s, and so on. Records (or CDs or whatever) are ONLY deleted if they are fake or a duplicate entry, or entered so badly that they cannot be fixed or verified. It would be wrong not to record their existence, but I think it's right to sometimes "hide them" a little. I wouldn't want to see, for example, white supremacist records appearing in the random images (and there is code in place to prevent this). That said, I don't think we need to over-analyze this. These entries have been hidden, they are still here in their entirety but won't appear in random images, homepage and whatnot. I don't think anyone will be bothered about this. It's all good. Perhaps we should move on to chirpier subjects... the weather's looking promising today! |
| 8th Feb 2015, 9:10 AM | #14 REPORT | |
 | George Slv This comment marked as Spam. Please press Not Spam Member since Aug 2012 498 Points | Oh please. As for Germany or any nation applying its law to websites outside their country ??? Their only business is to block their own providers from accessing it. Like copyright in the US being applied across the entire world-wide web. |
| 8th Feb 2015, 10:48 AM | #15 REPORT | |
| TheJudge In-house specialist in drive-by moddings. Member since Dec 2012 3715 Points Moderator |
Pridesale wrote:
Are these LPs issues of things that really were from the 1930s/40s?
Apparently. Our Times released at least three of these collections. |
| 8th Feb 2015, 1:00 PM | #16 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
TopPopper wrote:
For that matter (too) the Bible forbids making any likeness of anything on the earth (Exodus chapter 20, verse 4) - one of several commandments the church just plain ignores. So every image on the site should offend anyone who believes in the Christian God.
|
| 8th Feb 2015, 1:13 PM | #17 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
Jock_Girl wrote:
Here is what I wrote - "Note this is an American issue, probably put out be the equally despicable KKK, their poisonous ideologies are similar even if they're not entirely united in their disgusting traditions. Maybe these(one label only) should be shown to tell the world these cretins are still "out there" and haven't yet slithered back under the rock from whence they came." |
| 8th Feb 2015, 2:31 PM | #18 REPORT | |
| Trainman Trainman Member since Jun 2014 2559 Points Moderator | I did try and do some research on "Our Times" records, there appears to actually be three records like this, (according to Discogs) and they appear to be manufactured by a company called "Golden State Records", which from their other releases seemed to be something of a psychedelic "avant garde" label out of San Francisco in the late 60's, somewhat similar to "ESP Discs". I couldn't find anything further, for once Google has let me down. I don't know if I still have them, I'd have to dig, but I know at one time I had several 78's that were actually German releases of some of these same songs from the actual period. Would they provoke the same kind of reaction? The other side of the same coin, I know I had at least one from the 50's on the "Stinson" label that was by the Red Army Chorus (Stinson was infamous for their left leaning ideology). Would that be the same issue? Are our Japanese members going to be offended by all the "Victory At Sea" soundtrack albums I added yesterday? You can find someone who'll be offended by anything you put up. Maybe we should ban all the Ruth Wallis and Rusty Warren records because of their sexual overtones? It's just like Disney has never reissued the film "Song Of The South" because they're afraid of racial backlash. Should we ban the books of Mark Twain because he used the "N" word? The fact is, this stuff is out there, and as somebody else said, it's probably better to let people know, rather than try to pretend it never happened. It was George Santayana who said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" Edited by Trainman on 8th Feb 2015, 2:36 PM |
| 8th Feb 2015, 3:37 PM | #19 REPORT | |
| George Slv This comment marked as Spam. Please press Not Spam Member since Aug 2012 498 Points | What fun. Are we saving the world here today? TopPopper, to contribute to your edificationismwumpwump today, the images are regarding idols to worship. Trainman: you know that communism is righteous and not be demeaned. Dat's diffurint. It was George Santaxyz who said "Oh please..." |
| 8th Feb 2015, 3:50 PM | #20 REPORT | |
| Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | Seems I opened a bit of firestorm here .. such was not my intent. I am not advocating for the removal of said imagery or censorship thereof. Events with Charlie Hebdo demonstrate how we MUST advocate for such freedoms, in this case the presentation of Nazi symbolism must not be prohibited, but at the same time be handled with utmost of care. It s important that we learn from history. Women such as me where victims of the regime. Family of mine in the Ukraine went to the gas chambers. We must say 'NEVER AGAIN!' Indeed if the images where not shown or such things where never acknowledged then our critical comments about the evil associated with the music and symbols would never be known. In that way we continue the fight against fascism -- and that includes fascism that wraps itself in not only politics but also pseudo-moral/ quasi-religious ideology. Amy |
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Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
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45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45cat for 7" singles : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds