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| Victor -> RCA Victor |
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| 6th Dec 2012, 8:38 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | W.B.lbl The Collector's Collector Member since Feb 2012 3799 Points Moderator | In early 1946, Victor [USA] changed its name to RCA Victor, as reflected on the label design. I'm wondering, once 78 RPM World members start scanning post-1946 78's on the label, whether Victor and RCA Victor would be merged into one entry just as RCA Victor and RCA were on the companion 45cat site. |
| 6th Dec 2012, 11:31 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | Strawberry_Lynn Member since Dec 2012 69 Points | I suppose so, especially if it was a continuation of the Victor catalogue numbers. If I'm remembering this correctly, Victor manufactured records whilst RCA manufactured gramophones, radio sets, TV sets and other electrical equipment before the two companies decided to merge. |
| 7th Dec 2012, 1:48 AM | #3 REPORT | |
| W.B.lbl The Collector's Collector Member since Feb 2012 3799 Points Moderator | Technically, RCA had owned Victor since 1929, but the name change took effect on the label in early 1946. They were well into the 20-1500 catalogue series at the time. |
| 13th Jan 2013, 6:54 AM | #4 REPORT | |
 | LaurenceD SUBS Member since Aug 2011 7819 Points Moderator | Many of the original Victor releases were subsequently re-issued on the RCA Victor label, using the old catalogue numbers. Shall we group the two versions together as label variations, or make them separate entries? |
| 15th Jan 2013, 6:15 AM | #5 REPORT | |
| LaurenceD SUBS Member since Aug 2011 7819 Points Moderator | I have entered an example of a Victor/RCA Victor later pressing here. I entered it as a Victor release, with its original release date (not sure when the RCA version came out, but it had to be 1946 or later. Does this seem like the right way to go about it? If not, I can separate the labels from the original issue. |
| 26th Mar 2013, 10:41 AM | #6 REPORT | |
| Whyperion SUBS Too Many Records , Too Little Time Member since Jan 2013 306 Points | Seems a good place to try out a mini label biography , details sourced from Graces' Guide ( Did they take it from Wikipedia or Wiki from them ? ) 1892 Emile Berliner' founds the (United States) Gramophone Company based in the USA. Don't forget at this time the Gramophone was playing cylinders , not flat discs. 1897 The UK Gramophone Co was founded by William Barry Owen and his partner/investor Trevor Williams, as the UK partner of Berliner's Gramophone Co. 1890s The picture of a dog listening to an early gramophone painted in England by Francis Barraud. That painting entitled "His Master's Voice" is stated to be the dog listening to an Edison cylinder Phonograph, which was capable of recording as well as playing, but Thomas Edison did not buy the painting. 1899 Owen bought the painting from the artist, and asked him to paint over the Edison machine with a Gramophone, which he did. Internet sources note technically, since Gramophones did not record, the new version of the painting makes no sense, as the dog would not have been able to listen to his master's voice (the master being Barraud, and his own Nipper the dog), my note - although one has always assumed that the recording facilities were elsewhere anyway and the dog was listening to a previously recorded cylinder rather than a 'dictating' machine. 1900 December, Owen gained manufacturing rights from the Lambert Typewriter Co of the USA. and therefore for a few years the Gramophone Co was renamed as the Gramophone and Typewriter Ltd, registered on 10 December. The United States branch of Gramophone lost a patent infringement suit, brought on by Columbia Records and Zonophone, and was no longer permitted to produce records in the USA. Gramophone's talking machine manufacturer, Eldridge R. Johnson, was left with a large factory, thousands of talking machines and no records to play on them. He filed suit in 1900 to be permitted to make records himself. He won, in spite of the negative verdict against Berliner's Gramophone Company. This victory by Johnson, used to name the new record company the Victor Talking Machine Company, this was founded formally in 1901, may have been partly due to a patent-pooling handshake agreement with Columbia that allowed the Columbia to begin producing flat records themselves, which they began doing in 1901. As Johnson's earlier company (Called What ??) had been making the talking machines for Berliner, it was Johnson that owned a number of mechanical patents, These patents were valuable in the patent pool agreement with Columbia. As so , Victor and Columbia began making flat records in America, with UK Gramophone and others continuing to do so outside America, Edison remained as the only major player in the making of cylinders (Columbia still made a limited number ) Emile Berliner, the inventor of flat records, was left out of the legal US production, although he had the master recordings of his earlier records, which he took to Canada and there reformed his Berliner label in Montreal, including the Nipper logo and all. Edison soon join the flat record market with his diamond discs and their players. In 1902 Eldridge Johnson's Victor Talking Machine Company acquired the US rights to use the dog and gramophone as the Victor trademark and the logo began appearing on Victor records that year. ( UK rights to the logo were reserved by Gramophone). Appartently Nipper lived from 1884 to 1895 and is buried in England with a celebrated grave marker. Quite how Gramophone Company managed to lose a patent suit when its supplier could win one seems answerable only to the convoluted US patent laws , so if anyone can more easily reference the detail on this , thats welcome. Edited by Whyperion on 26th Mar 2013, 10:56 AM |
| 1st Apr 2013, 3:02 PM | #7 REPORT | |
 | Dr Doom SUBS I wanna eat an artichoke once in a while Member since Feb 2008 25440 Points Administrator |
LaurenceD wrote:
I have entered an example of a Victor/RCA Victor later pressing here. I entered it as a Victor release, with its original release date (not sure when the RCA version came out, but it had to be 1946 or later.
Does this seem like the right way to go about it? If not, I can separate the labels from the original issue. I agree with how you've done it. It's the same record company really so it's just a later pressing as you say. I'd like to hear other peoples views on whether we link Victor and RCA Victor. I'm inclined to think yes but I'd like a general consensus.  |
| 13th Apr 2013, 8:00 PM | #8 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator | Looks like similar angst for Canada too! see http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/26377 |
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