|
45worlds Forums » 78 RPM » View Topic
| Country of sale or manufacture? |
Add Reply
| 14th Jan 2013, 5:39 PM | #1 REPORT | |
 | Redpunk SUBS Crates Are For Digging Member since Aug 2012 25508 Points Moderator | I have several 78s that were made in Germany or France for the UK market also Egyptian records made in Greece. Would the correct way to list them be under the country where they were most likely sold. |
| 14th Jan 2013, 7:29 PM | #2 REPORT | |
 | Orbiting Cat ● Member since Jan 2008 1189 Points Administrator | I'd say add them to the country of release, and if really needed they could also be added to the country of manufacture as "Export Issue". |
| 6th Feb 2013, 4:18 PM | #3 REPORT | |
 | chang4pian4 Korean 45 blog: http://koreanvinyl.wordpress.com/ Member since Feb 2013 7 Points | I'd like to add some quick thoughts to this. I tend to gravitate towards country of manufacture with an Export Issue notation. Although I don't have any release examples immediately at hand, the South Korea/Japan relationship is a case to consider. During the Japanese colonial period in South Korea a large percentage of the 78s released in SK (called Standard Play discs here) consisted of Korean music on discs manufactured in Japan. Although they were never intended for release into the Japanese market they were essentially Japanese products, on Japanese labels, usually with the Japanese cat. #'s, recorded in Japan using Japanese based artists/musicians, produced by Japanese music industry players, etc. Personally, I tend to take the position that listing Export Releases in their release country, especially those with text such as Made in Country X actually printed on the label, rather than their actual country of origin distorts the reading of the history of music industry of the time in both countries. South East Asia may also be problematic in this sense. I agree that pressing location is less important than release location, however if the pressing is also one done for a label which is based in that country, with the recording instigated by that label, then essentially the record is a product of that country IMO, regardless of where it ends up in the distribution process. Please take this thought into consideration. |
| 6th Feb 2013, 5:34 PM | #4 REPORT | |
| Whyperion SUBS Too Many Records , Too Little Time Member since Jan 2013 306 Points | Indeed with the 78 era covering two world wars, when the political map of the world, with its economic links somewhat different and ever changing compared to the 45 era (Arguably the days of CDs and multi-national corporations going into megadrive have re-introduced a wide spread of place of making , and the place of selling ). Databases don't really work well trying to slot the logical to the physical when this happens, so one has to attempt to take a practical view of what was the intention of the creator when the object was made. |
| 6th Feb 2013, 5:39 PM | #5 REPORT | |
 | Juke Jules SUBS Tell me he's lazy, tell me he's slow Member since Jan 2011 4150 Points Moderator | For me, release contry takes precedent over country of manufacture, but I appreciate chang4pian4's point re Japanese labels The way round this seems to be to link both Japanese and SK labels so that all releases show up whether they are added as Japan or SK releases I presume that Admin could do this..? |
| 7th Feb 2013, 10:29 AM | #6 REPORT | |
 | Dr Doom SUBS I wanna eat an artichoke once in a while Member since Feb 2008 25440 Points Administrator |
Juke Jules wrote:
The way round this seems to be to link both Japanese and SK labels so that all releases show up whether they are added as Japan or SK releases
I presume that Admin could do this..? I don't think we could link labels assigned to different countries. I think the database would spew that one out!  |
| 7th Feb 2013, 1:06 PM | #7 REPORT | |
| chang4pian4 Korean 45 blog: http://koreanvinyl.wordpress.com/ Member since Feb 2013 7 Points | Please add Korea into countries and I will try to list a handful of items. Also Japan, although I cannot add Japanese and Chinese kanji or Chinese full form characters myself. Korean text is ok tho. I understand that there were around 6 000 78 rpm releases of Korean music from Japan and Korea. I need to talk to someone in Seoul who has details and scans of all of these releases (both label sides) to see which I may be able to use here. May take a couple of months before I get to do this tho. Edited by chang4pian4 on 7th Feb 2013, 1:25 PM |
| 9th Feb 2013, 10:05 AM | #8 REPORT | |
 | zabadak Caddacack oh da ca-caddacack, shy shy skagellack Member since Jun 2010 4183 Points | Does this one fall into this category? Or is it the other way round (i.e. an export copy)?  Edited by zabadak on 9th Feb 2013, 10:05 AM |
| 9th Feb 2013, 5:00 PM | #9 REPORT | |
| chang4pian4 Korean 45 blog: http://koreanvinyl.wordpress.com/ Member since Feb 2013 7 Points | Personally, and it's only my opinion, I tend to think that any disc with a label or sleeve that has 'Made in England' should make it UK. Sometimes an export disc may well go out to a number of countries. EMI pressings in Singapore went out across much of South East Asia. Some Australian Festival K series 45s were export issues to South East Asia. Not listing them as Australian would leave a gap in the Festival K series number sequence which could be problematic for people putting together a complete discography. |
| 27th Feb 2013, 12:10 AM | #10 REPORT | |
 | PhilMH SUBS Member since Jan 2012 1057 Points | Hi, just joined up, so first post! Firstly, a lot of UK pressings were expressly for foreign markets, UK Decca's pressings for US & Canadian London being the most obvious example (as well as red label Decca pressings that were intended for Europe, using the UK Brunswick catalogue numbers prefixed by BM), so country of release is more important here, and reflects the true nature of the release - it would be utterly false to say that, for example, a Vera Lynn 78 on London with "Made in England" on it would be a UK release, when the actual UK release was on Decca. As for gaps in the Australian Festival 45 catalogue number series due to export issues, there would be gaps in the series anyway, as some numbers were reserved for New Zealand releases that weren't released in Oz (very unhelpful, I know, when trying to complete a discography!) Is it possible to have two country fields here, one for country of manufacture and one for country of release (the latter possibly allowing for multiple countries to be entered?) |
| 27th Feb 2013, 11:08 PM | #11 REPORT | |
| Dr Doom SUBS I wanna eat an artichoke once in a while Member since Feb 2008 25440 Points Administrator |
PhilMH wrote:
Is it possible to have two country fields here, one for country of manufacture and one for country of release (the latter possibly allowing for multiple countries to be entered?) Welcome Phil. We did prototype something like that when we first designed the 45cat website and frankly it was a disaster.  It sounds simple enough in theory but in practice it's a lot harder to do. Put very simply databases don't like things to be more than one 'thing' at once. |
| 28th Feb 2013, 11:35 PM | #12 REPORT | |
| Juke Jules SUBS Tell me he's lazy, tell me he's slow Member since Jan 2011 4150 Points Moderator | 'Notes' and comments usually take care of these details well enough, and most importantly the information will show in searches - Jules |
| 28th Mar 2013, 10:01 AM | #13 REPORT | |
| Pridesale Member since Mar 2013 805 Points | I note that Wikipedia illustrates in its Gramophone_record page . A multinational product: a duet sung in Italian, recorded in the U.S. in 1906 by the Victor Talking Machine Company, manufactured c. 1908 in Hanover, Germany for The Gramophone Company, Victor's affiliate in England. |
| 28th Dec 2013, 3:55 PM | #14 REPORT | |
| GEMSMFAN Member since Jan 2013 3324 Points | http://www.45worlds.com/vinyl/album/epc86123 The above clearly should be classified as a U.S. Export Issue. It is a sealed U.S. release in which only a sticker was applied to sell it in the UK. Once this release was opened and shrinkwrap discarded, it would be U.S., as no indication of the UK catalog number would be known. The UK number isn't printed anywhere inside. I didn't realize these appear under the 78RPM forum, sorry http://www.45worlds.com/vinyl/album/epc4898501e69200 Same here, only a sticker indicates this. Should be Swedish Export Issue Edited by GEMSMFAN on 28th Dec 2013, 4:11 PM |
| 28th Dec 2013, 4:04 PM | #15 REPORT | |
| GEMSMFAN Member since Jan 2013 3324 Points | IMO, as for country of manufacture, not all records were manufactured for that Country. Before records totally disappeared. Many UK releases or possibly Europe, were made in Holland because that was where the only record pressing facilities were. Most plants had already shut down. Edited by GEMSMFAN on 28th Dec 2013, 4:05 PM |
Add Reply
45worlds website ©2025 :
Homepage :
Search :
Sitemap :
Help Page :
Privacy :
Terms :
Contact :
Share This Page
Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45cat for 7" singles : 45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds
:
Like us on Facebook
Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45cat for 7" singles : 45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds