Madison - Latest Updates

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Comment by DeweyGill SUBS:

Both sides are the usual GG house band suspects- Mosiello, Sannella, Magnante, etc.

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Comment by Mike Gann:

A-side label image added and title corrected.

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Comment by DeweyGill SUBS:

Hey! Those videos are from my friend Joe Marx- I just talked to him yesterday by text!

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Comment by xiphophilos:

Using AI to identify the singer is a great idea, definitely better than faking other people's voices to scam their relatives, which is what it is currently used for.

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Comment by xiphophilos:

I had not yet had a chance to listen to any of the tracks. Now found them both on Youtube:

A side:
[YouTube Video]


B side (vocals: Arthur Fields):
[YouTube Video]

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Comment by cyeaman SUBS:

I wonder whether anyone is developing artificial intelligence tools to identify uncredited performers on old recordings like this one? That would be one useful application of the technology, I think.

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Comment by DeweyGill SUBS:

I’m still thinking Sanella, as he sang uncredited on a number of GG sides. Definitely not IK

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Comment by cyeaman SUBS:

To my ears, the singer on "I Love You So Much" sounds very different from Irving Kaufman, @xiphophilos.

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Comment by Mike Gann:

[YouTube Video]

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Comment by Mike Gann:

[YouTube Video]

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Comment by xiphophilos:

Could the vocalist be Irving Kaufman, as on this side?
[YouTube Video]

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Comment by DeweyGill SUBS:

@ cyeaman: Just remember, it’s just a hot dance side , not a hot jazz side.

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Comment by cyeaman SUBS:

Thanks for the tip, @DeweyGill. I'll check it out!

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Comment by DeweyGill SUBS:

Might actually be my favorite rendition of this song. Very quick two step by the Sanella/Mosiello/Magnante gang. Every once and a while the GG house band turns in an inspired performance. Not sure who the vocalist is here, not Fields or Hall on the top side, it could actually be Andy Sanella. He does just about everything else here, steel guitar and alto sax solo, too.

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Comment by slholzer:

Country Music Records and the On-Line Discographical Project concur that Tom Cook is a pseudonym for Frank Luther and that George French is a pseudonym for Arthur Fields on this disc. CMR thinks the A side was recorded in July, 1928 and the B-side in June, 1928. The ODP suggests May for the A-side and April for the B-side.

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Comment by slholzer:

Country Music Records at p. 769 identifies Tom Cook on this disc as Frank Luther recorded in New York in late 1928 or early 1929.

On p.618 and 619, Country Music Records identifies Joe Adams and James Clark on this record as Bob Miller and Barney Burnett. The On-Line Discographical Project proposes Frank Luther and Carson Robison instead. This difference of opinion might account for ODP's assignment of a March, 1930 recording date, but note that the two versions listed by CMR are assigned recording dates of Nov-Dec. 1929 and March, 1930 respectively. CMR lists Mad 5076 as an issue for both versions, although other issues are assigned to only one or the other.

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Comment by slholzer:

Rust's American Dance Band Discography at p.688 lists a track that seems likely tobe the same as Side A: The One I Love Just Can't Be Bothered With Me credited to the Olympic Dance Orchestra (a Grey Gull studio band) on Goodson 197 (an English label that often used Grey Gull material). This track is shown as recorded in NYC, February, 1930, and is likely the source of the Online Discographical Project's assignment of that date to the same title on Mad 5059. The ODP proposes SL (prob. Scrappy Lambert) for the anonymous vocal chorus. ADBD acknowledges the presence of the vocal but declines to suggest an identity.ODP assigns the mx 233B to thist rack, with an alternate identity of 3889, in case that turns out to be a control #.

The B side track does not appear to be in the Grey Gull studio band chapter of ADBD, nor is it listed under Fred Hall's name, that being the identity for the Synco Jazzers proposed by The ODP. ODP suggests AF (prob. Arthur Fields) for the vocalist and a recording date of Jan, 1929. The mx 189 on the label is acknowledged by ODP, but with a backup # of 3310.

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Comment by slholzer:

Per Country Music Records, p.618, Joe Adams and James Clark are pseudonyms on this disc for Bob Miller and Barney Burnett. The disc was recorded in New York c. Nov-Dec, 1929.

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Comment by han enderman:

Madison 50027 - added variant of B-side, with different font used for the ampersand (&). I assume that this is the original printing, and the same 'normal' ampersand also occurs on Madison 50028 by the same musicians. The 50000 series was continued after 50051 as 5000 series, and the labels already present show a later printing of 50027-B with flourished ampersand, coupled with the reprint of 50027-A as 5027-A. - The reprinted labels 5001-5051 show a small space after 50, and for uniformity someone has to decide if this space should be shown in the catnr or not (now both forms occur). The new issues in the 5000 series do not have this space (from 5054 on).

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Comment by Mike Gann:

I've placed the Joe Adams and James Clark sides in the Bob Miller discography. On the flip side, sorting out which Tom Cook titles are Frank Luther and which ones are not is going to be a bit of a chore.

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Comment by slholzer:

Per Country Music Records p.769, Tom Cook is a pseudonym on this disc for Frank Luther. The sde was recordfed in NYC inl ate 1928 or early 1929. Thee Online Discographical Project suggests a recording date of Feb. 1927.

Country Music Records at p. 618 id's Joe Adams and James Clark as Bob Miller and Barney Burnett, recorded NYC Jan. 1930. THE ODP concurs with the date.

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Comment by slholzer:

The last time I encountered the Billy Dalton name on Madison it was ID'd by Country Music Records as Jack Weston. This disc, however, does not appear under Weston's name in CMR. The On-Line Discographical Project shows vocalist initials IK, which I would guess stand for Irving Kaufman, but you'd have to ask Steve Abrams to know for sure.

Dave Sanborn does not appear as an artist or a pseudonym in any of my reference sources. It could be he is a real person, but because he appears on Madison, it is more probable than not that he isn't. The On-Line Discographical project lists vocalist initials AB, which may be a clue as to who Abrams thought it was, but no one comes to my mind at the moment. The ODP also proposes Sannella (presumably Andy) as the composer of "Eva", which might ultimately be better clue. A mystery for another day or somebody else.

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Comment by slholzer:

Per Tony Russell's Country Music Records, 1921-1942, Tom Cook on the B-side is Frank Luther. In Pseudonyms on American REcords, 1892-1942, Allan Sutton indicates that Tom Cook is possibly Frank Luther on Grey Gull labels but not on Madison, based on aural evidence. This is a very strong opinion by Sutton's standards. Other candidates listed in CMR's Xref for Tom Cook include Arthur Fields, Vernon Dalhart and possibly others (but bear in mind that Russell made his choice and it is printed on p. 776 under Carson Robison's name.

The A side is listed by CMR on the same page, where Smith and James is apparently accepted as the actual identity of the vocal duo. Both sides are shown as recorded in NY, ?c. Sept. 1929.

The On-Line Discographical Project is silent on the identity of Tom Cook and concurs with CMR that the B-side is a Carson Robison group. The ODP assigns different mxs and rec dates to each side (3626B in June, 1927 to A, 2483B in Aug. 1929 to B.) CMR shows the 3626B mx as a separate track from mx 135-A-B, with a different issue list (not inc. any Madisons).and a different artist credit (Frank Luther & Ed Faber). Mx 2483B may be listed somewhere in CMR, but so far I've not found it and I'm out of useful clues. If Tom Cook is Vernon Dalhart or Arthur Fields, this particular track did not make it into CMR under their names. Both chapters are selective for country material and selections deemed to be "Pop" are generally not included.

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Comment by Mike Gann:

Thank you. Now edited.

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Comment by slholzer:

According to an entry in the American Dance Band Discography (p. 1631), the A-side track is by Ben Selvin AHO, recorded in NYC c. April, 1925. It was also issued on Grey Gull and Globe (no. 1278 in both cases).

Honey Duke and His Uke is a well-known pseudonym for Johnny Marvin.

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Comment by slholzer:

Country Music Records lists Jack Weston as the artist on both sides of this disc. Per CMR, it was recorded in NY, c. January, 1930.

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Comment by slholzer:

The B side is listed in the American Dance Band Discography on p. 684 under Grey Gull studio bands. The Altanta Syncopaters are also Xreffed in ADBD as a Grey Gull Studio band, but the A-side track is not listed in that chapter unless it was first issued under the title "Emilia" on the Van Dyke label.. Lest there be any confusion on the matter, such re-titlings were not unknown in the Grey Gull stable. If that is the case here, however, the re-appearance of "Emilia" on Madison 1939 as "Kiss Me Soon Again" is not documented in ADBD.

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Comment by slholzer:

The On-Line Discographical Project offers an alternate mx of 3437 for the A-side of this disc. It is not the first time I have seen the 5000 series number shown on a Madison label disregarded as mere control number. Perhaps the bigger mystery would be why they seemed to use controls so haphazardly. Why on one side, but not the other?

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Comment by slholzer:

In Pseudonyms On American Records (1892-1942), Allan Sutton identifies George Anthony as a pseudonym for Al Bernard on one (not this one) Madison issue. I think that makes Bernard a prime suspect for this one as well, but perhaps someone who has the record would venture an aural id.

Sutton also lists George French as a pseudonym generally in use for Arthur Fields on Madison issues.

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Comment by slholzer:

If the labels are to be believed, Blue Hawaiian Moon on Mad 1637 and Blue Hawaiian Moonlight on Mad 1639 are the same track. The mx number and composers are the same. I suppose there is room for a different take to be on each.