I also thought that Fame were a reissue series, but when u look at the Marillion discography the fame issues appear along sidethe original EMI LPs.
So did fame issue records at the same time as EMI label as the cheaper option or have the dates been filled in wrong in marillions case?
Sorry didnt explain that properly, the fame issues are separate entries however the dates have been entered the same as the original so when looking down the discography it looks as if the Fame records are released at the same time as the EMI originals.
I think part of the problem is that people tend to read the year from the record label, but that will show the first appearance of the LP, rather than that particular edition.
Yeah I have no idea when these fane issues are from the labels show the original publishing dates. And sites like discogs and wikipedia all have taken the original dates and used them on there discographies.
If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator
Just want to make a few observations about this infernal label...
Found myself kind of drawn into that particular discography recently, like the veritable vertigo swirl-like vortex of confusion it is, when trying to date them.
I can see a few things that may help narrow date ranges in there, but also serve to muddy the water a little:
1. It seems EMI released these at the rate of about 4-5 a month.
2. The release dates usually coincide with a new release by the artist whose album is being reissued.
3. The label progression seems to be as follows:
a) light brown with red grid pattern until about 1987-88
b) a brief period of yellow with red grid pattern somewhere around 1986 - 1988
c) also around this time, some had picture labels.
d) a mix of light brown (no hatching), and a darker brown (no hatching) till the demise of the label.
Can't be any more specific than that.
But one more point to make, that could be a source of the confusion...
An early title released on this label will obviously have the light brown with red hatching, but through continuous, or intermittent pressing, will also exist as a yellow label with red hatching, a plain light brown, and a plain dark brown, but one of the last releases may exist only as a dark brown. A title from about 88, may exist as a picture label, plain brown (either), or even a yellow with red hatch, but not a light brown with red hatching (as per the earlier releases).
In view of this, is it possible that some people have made entries both here and on discogs erroneously, based on the label version date they have, but not the first appearance of that title on Fame (with an earlier label).
I feel EMI would not release the titles out of catalogue sequence chronologically, exceot maybe by a couple of months - say a band announces a new album in the works, so a programmed release of a reissue of one of their earlier titles is brought forward to coincide with it (or maybe pushed back?)
In the case of the Japan album on Fame, I think this may be as much as two years off.
(It doesn't help that they started arse-ing around with the catalogue numbers themselves, and putting the numbers 41, and 1 either side of the four digit catalogue number on some... although I believe the sequence still holds based on these four central digits, and a few entries here and elsewhere may be well off beam because of it).
Good deduction. I think some of these albums were re-pressed, so they should exist with earlier and later label types, and as you say, that can throw the dating off, if only the later label type is recorded here. I think we need to find either a catalogue or some source itemising new releases on the label. When we do, the listing can be firmed up.
a) light brown with red grid pattern until about 1987-88
b) a brief period of yellow with red grid pattern somewhere around 1986 - 1988
c) also around this time, some had picture labels.
d) a mix of light brown (no hatching), and a darker brown (no hatching) till the demise of the label.
and a mock up of the original label
in terms of the date I got the may 1990 from an online marillion discography site that I don't think exists anymore
If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator
I'm beginning to wonder if the dates for the picture labels and original label mock ups are actually 1990 onwards.
One other thing I've noted, through looking at the pattern of the cat sequences... Fame did not release anything in the month of December, and where a few here give a date before about March or April, I'm wondering if they are right, because most of the issues in the new year's resumption begin in one of those two months (I'd go for March, being the earlier).
I think what needs to happen (and I might try this myself, but feel free to have a go yourselves), is a chart should be made, which shows, as a starting point, every possible Fame cat number in sequence, then try and create a list of album titles to match them...
Next to that you put the original album release date , and then any reissues on other labels (which would render the Fame reissue of that title redundant), finally, you have columns and rows for the different label types, which you tick next the title in question - whether it is known to exist in brown with hatching, yellow hatched, picture etc.
Through this, I think you'd build a picture whereby one set of facts confirms or discounts others (For instance, the Japan album is the only one that is that far out of sequence with it's current date, when measured against the dates for other Fame reissues).
And one more observation, would be that none seem to be released within two years of the original album's release.
Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points
Magic Marmalade wrote:
Just want to make a few observations about this infernal label...
Found myself kind of drawn into that particular discography recently, like the veritable vertigo swirl-like vortex of confusion it is, when trying to date them.
I can see a few things that may help narrow date ranges in there, but also serve to muddy the water a little:
1. It seems EMI released these at the rate of about 4-5 a month.
2. The release dates usually coincide with a new release by the artist whose album is being reissued.
3. The label progression seems to be as follows:
a) light brown with red grid pattern until about 1987-88
b) a brief period of yellow with red grid pattern somewhere around 1986 - 1988
c) also around this time, some had picture labels.
d) a mix of light brown (no hatching), and a darker brown (no hatching) till the demise of the label.
Can't be any more specific than that.
But one more point to make, that could be a source of the confusion...
An early title released on this label will obviously have the light brown with red hatching, but through continuous, or intermittent pressing, will also exist as a yellow label with red hatching, a plain light brown, and a plain dark brown, but one of the last releases may exist only as a dark brown. A title from about 88, may exist as a picture label, plain brown (either), or even a yellow with red hatch, but not a light brown with red hatching (as per the earlier releases).
In view of this, is it possible that some people have made entries both here and on discogs erroneously, based on the label version date they have, but not the first appearance of that title on Fame (with an earlier label).
I feel EMI would not release the titles out of catalogue sequence chronologically, exceot maybe by a couple of months - say a band announces a new album in the works, so a programmed release of a reissue of one of their earlier titles is brought forward to coincide with it (or maybe pushed back?)
In the case of the Japan album on Fame, I think this may be as much as two years off.
(It doesn't help that they started arse-ing around with the catalogue numbers themselves, and putting the numbers 41, and 1 either side of the four digit catalogue number on some... although I believe the sequence still holds based on these four central digits, and a few entries here and elsewhere may be well off beam because of it).
Any thoughts?
I have a Dr. Hook LP, "Sometimes You Win", issued on the Fame label, with the disc label design described by Magic Marmalade as : b) a brief period of yellow with red grid pattern somewhere around 1986 - 1988. The publishing date is as per the original Capitol issue, though without the album in front of me, I couldn't tell you what it was, but it turned out that was Dr. Hook's last album for EMI/Capitol before jumping over to Mercury.
If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator
I think we should have a drive to get all the Fame labels (and covers) up, this label seems to cause people no end of strife.
Could you dig your Dr Hook out Neil, and bump it up your entry schedule (if you have one!), I'm going to try to have a go at pinning down the dates for these.
I did have a cursory look at some listings on ebay with fame labels... I did see a Piper at the gates of Dawn with the plain brown labels, and a few months back saw one with the yellow with red hatch, so he brown one will be later pressed than the yellow... and a Collection Of Great Dance Songs with brown labels.
So if people are dating here and elsewhere by the label colour issue, when an early varaint exists, it's no wonder these are all outa bonk.
(Sad as it may be, this label is begining to keep me awake at nights! )
Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator
Magic Marmalade wrote:
I think we should have a drive to get all the Fame labels (and covers) up, this label seems to cause people no end of strife.
Could you dig your Dr Hook out Neil, and bump it up your entry schedule (if you have one!), I'm going to try to have a go at pinning down the dates for these.
I did have a cursory look at some listings on ebay with fame labels... I did see a Piper at the gates of Dawn with the plain brown labels, and a few months back saw one with the yellow with red hatch, so he brown one will be later pressed than the yellow... and a Collection Of Great Dance Songs with brown labels.
So if people are dating here and elsewhere by the label colour issue, when an early varaint exists, it's no wonder these are all outa bonk.
(Sad as it may be, this label is begining to keep me awake at nights! )
I think I have a couple to scan - I'll dig them out.
Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points
Magic Marmalade wrote:
I think we should have a drive to get all the Fame labels (and covers) up, this label seems to cause people no end of strife.
Could you dig your Dr Hook out Neil, and bump it up your entry schedule (if you have one!), I'm going to try to have a go at pinning down the dates for these.
I did have a cursory look at some listings on ebay with fame labels... I did see a Piper at the gates of Dawn with the plain brown labels, and a few months back saw one with the yellow with red hatch, so he brown one will be later pressed than the yellow... and a Collection Of Great Dance Songs with brown labels.
So if people are dating here and elsewhere by the label colour issue, when an early varaint exists, it's no wonder these are all outa bonk.
(Sad as it may be, this label is begining to keep me awake at nights! )
I'll do that but I'll have to wait a week before I put it up on this site(when I've got an extra 4 gigabytes to play with after I recharge my Virginbroadband account). In the meantime I can give the details. Watch for them in a separate post.
Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points
Okay, MM, the album is "Sometimes You Win" - Dr. Hook which was first issued in 1979 on Capitol in Britain as EST-12018. The Fame label issue, probably from some time in 1980, is FA-3012. I note at the bottom of the rear sleeve it states: Distributed by Music For Pleasure Ltd., Hayes, Middlesex, then it has the EMI logo under that statement. So make of that what you will, hope the detail's enough, Should be able to put the details and images up next weekend when I've got some more gigabytes to play with.
4 gigabytes is the equivalent of around 16,000 maximum sized images on 45cat/45worlds, I think.
I too will look for Fame records on my shelves tomorrow.