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| 5th Jul 2015, 1:52 PM | #101 REPORT | |
 | Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Well thanks for volunteering to tackle the CDs Jordan!!!!  (seriously... any other recruits to the cause would not be discouraged!) What we have, across the Fame label on all formats, and as far as it fits into the schemes of MFP, CFP, Captiol, and EMI, is several impossibly difficult jigsaws, which, when complete, will be themselves, only pieces of a larger jigsaw. But if headway is made on one aspect, you can use it to see how it relates to the other bits, which could be helpful. The abandonment of the 41-1s (4s on tape) on vinyl surely has something to do with this. ...which establishes one set of facts, and raises another question: We know that the 1 at the end of the vinyl cats is vinyl format, and 4 is tape, so we can say that 2 must be CD format signifier. ...but then, what on earth could 3 be? (wherefore art thou 3?) |
| 5th Jul 2015, 2:19 PM | #102 REPORT | |
 | jordansongs🍰 Member since Jan 2010 732 Points | I can fill in a couple of gaps in your list MM (all of these I found on CD, so no guarantee they were released on vinyl): 3177 Whitesnake -Saints & Sinners 3227 Joe Cocker - Cocker 3233 Various - No More Heroes 3248 Iron Maiden - Live After Death I found further releases after 3258 up to 3320, but I'll leave these for another time. |
| 5th Jul 2015, 2:29 PM | #103 REPORT | |
 | Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
Well thanks for volunteering to tackle the CDs Jordan!!!!
(seriously... any other recruits to the cause would not be discouraged!) What we have, across the Fame label on all formats, and as far as it fits into the schemes of MFP, CFP, Captiol, and EMI, is several impossibly difficult jigsaws, which, when complete, will be themselves, only pieces of a larger jigsaw. But if headway is made on one aspect, you can use it to see how it relates to the other bits, which could be helpful. The abandonment of the 41-1s (4s on tape) on vinyl surely has something to do with this. ...which establishes one set of facts, and raises another question: We know that the 1 at the end of the vinyl cats is vinyl format, and 4 is tape, so we can say that 2 must be CD format signifier. ...but then, what on earth could 3 be? (wherefore art thou 3?) |
| 5th Jul 2015, 9:28 PM | #104 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | There must be a reason for the 3 missing though, or to look at it the other way round, why 1 was chosen to signify vinyl, and 4 tape, while omitting the both 2 and 3 until CDs... ...did they anticipate a new format? (I checked to see if any of these were on minidisc, but nothing) |
| 6th Jul 2015, 10:51 AM | #105 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Been thinking about that Maiden mispress (well, let's call it what it is), and what it could mean for the dating of Fame... Whilke on closer inspection, the seller lists country of manufacture as Micronesia, the labels state "made in UK" Which, if so, is evidence that they had both label styles to hand when this copy was pressed (Not proof yet, there's still a possiility of a simple mistake involving a left-over box of old labels)... Which makes me wonder why the mistake is not with a bright Yellow label on one side, if this is the label next to either of these labels? It could mean that the bright yellow appeared during the old label run, and they simply went back to the old label design for a while, before switching to the plain label, rather than a simple succession of Vanilla red grid - Bright Yellow - Plain light brown, each replacing the other in turn - however briefly. This is ten titles after the latest in the sequence I've seen with the bright yellow (Cliff Richard: Wired For Sound. Hmmmm...perplexing. |
| 6th Jul 2015, 3:09 PM | #106 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
There must be a reason for the 3 missing though, or to look at it the other way round, why 1 was chosen to signify vinyl, and 4 tape, while omitting the both 2 and 3 until CDs...
...did they anticipate a new format? (I checked to see if any of these were on minidisc, but nothing) The minidisc(recordable format) never really took off for commercial music issues, though it was great for radio stations, especially the community sector here in Australia. We put our corporate sponsorship acknowledgment spots and station I.D. spots on them, as well as community notices and any other pre-recorded announcements. The format was great, ready-made for that application. You could move tracks(reallocate them to another track number), title them, edit them to take out gaps and avoid dead-air, and it was dead-easy to use. but for commercial music marketing, Minidisc just never clicked. |
| 6th Jul 2015, 4:58 PM | #107 REPORT | |
 | TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
There must be a reason for the 3 missing though, or to look at it the other way round, why 1 was chosen to signify vinyl, and 4 tape, while omitting the both 2 and 3 until CDs...
...did they anticipate a new format? (I checked to see if any of these were on minidisc, but nothing) I just looked at a couple of Beatles releases, vinyl and CD. It appears that this system was used there too, so is probably something which applies across all EMI product. That being so, it's quite possible -3 was for minidisc or some other format (were they still releasing 8-tracks when the system came in?), even though Fame may not have issued any. These aren't calataogue numbers, by the way, but some sort of internal reference number system. |
| 6th Jul 2015, 5:24 PM | #108 REPORT | |
| jordansongs🍰 Member since Jan 2010 732 Points | The 1, 2, 4 format codes are universal across all labels. I'm not sure when they were introduced, but it's possible it coincided with the emergence of CDs (or perhaps when the barcode system began to be used, which is more or less around about the same time?) Minidiscs were given the number 8, so not only are we now looking for 3, but also 5, 6 and 7 (at least)! |
| 6th Jul 2015, 6:14 PM | #109 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
jordansongs wrote:
The 1, 2, 4 format codes are universal across all labels. I'm not sure when they were introduced, but it's possible it coincided with the emergence of CDs (or perhaps when the barcode system began to be used, which is more or less around about the same time?)
Minidiscs were given the number 8, so not only are we now looking for 3, but also 5, 6 and 7 (at least)! 66 Clickety-click....BINGO! |
| 6th Jul 2015, 7:23 PM | #110 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Well that's my lottery numbers sorted for this week. ..I am still working on this, it's just all the tedious searching and compiling of facts at the moment. (Maybe I should have one of those swirly dot things like Microsoft has, to let you know I'm doing something. ...loading....loading... loading - please standby - loading.... |
| 7th Jul 2015, 12:16 AM | #111 REPORT | |
| RadoxTheGreen Wait, I have to scan what now? Member since Jan 2013 772 Points Moderator | If you're referring to the RIAA codes, they are: Audio: 0 - not assigned 1 - 12" LP or 12" single 2 - CD ROM, CD, CDi, VCD 3 - not assigned 4 - Cassette, Maxi Cassette, Cassette Single 5 - Digital Compact Cassette 6 - not assigned 7 - 7" single 8 - Mini Disc 9 - All music formats of DVD Video: 0 - not assigned 1 - 12" CDV 2 - not assigned 3 - VHS 4 - not assigned 5 - BETA 6 - Laserdisc 7 - not assigned 8 - 8mm tape 9 - DVD music video |
| 7th Jul 2015, 6:36 PM | #112 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Ah, thank you Radox...That'll prove useful in future beyond these issues. Just a couple of updates and a little note of progress Was able to amend the list and add in The Whitesanke - Saints And Sinners you highlighted Jordan. There was one copy on vinyl I found for sale on the net, with the right cat number, but was listed under it's source label (Something I suspect is the reason a couple of these can't be found yet... they're incognito!). I did find Joe Cocker - Cocker listed on Discogs under fame, but the only scan of the front cover has no logo, and this can be found on Capitol proper in US, so that, and the others can't be verified yet... But did Find Fun Boy Three - Fun Boy Three, and have added that in at : 41 3115 1. |
| 7th Jul 2015, 7:05 PM | #113 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Oh yes, and the progress... I've got my chart filling up quite well with little boxes filled to signify a label type found, and with notes in biro as to whether it's barcoded or not, has source label or not, black or red rim text on the label... And a pattern is emerging which suggests a chronology: There's a cluster from 3063 (Tygers of Pan Tang) thorugh the early appended 41-1s (3069 - Steely Dan, to 3081 - Beatles oldies) which have the black rim text in sequence... there are a couple of copies of others earlier in the sequence I've found so far with this: American Pie, and Japan - Quiet life, but this would suggest these are a tad later, and coincide with the pressing of others in this cluster, and also exist with the red rim text (I just haven't seen them yet)... It's the Beatles Oldies that has both red and Black rim text, and so far, nothing after has the black text... so this phenomenon itself would appear to have been a brief flicker of something they tried, but didn't stick. This cluster almost exactly corresponds with barcoded sleeves, which further re-inforces the chronological aspect of the sequence ( but to what degree, and how, is yet to be seen). Finally, I'm beginning to wonder if a few I can't yet find in the sequence may be due to coincidence with another label's cat number system, that begins to show up in search results quite frequently late on in the numbers (Brace yourself Neil!): MCA, have a few 3200s. So maybe they just left those numbers blank due to this (in which case, why not change the whole sequence?), or, as the Joe Cocker album may explain, a label like Capitol, may just decide to release it themselves, under their own name, even though Fame cat is already assigned (Which also could prove confusing, if later on, when CD Fames come into being, Capitol no longer want it, and it appears under the Fame logo!) but we shall see. |
| 18th Jul 2015, 11:08 AM | #114 REPORT | |
 | Steptoe Keep your glow on Member since Sep 2011 995 Points | Hey MM, How's it going with the Fame list? I've got myself a copy of the Music Master Labels Catalogue, in which there are all the Fame releases on CD, cassette and LP along with the release month and year. at a quick glance through, it looks like the LP's started in May '82, the CD's in Oct '87 and the cassettes Oct '83 If you let me know which ones you have missing, i can fill in the blanks and release dates |
| 18th Jul 2015, 3:34 PM | #115 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Will be doing something soon... Got some things on, and engaged in a battle to the death with Windows 8.1 (Feckin' thing has tried my patience for the last time!!!!!) If you've got a list of the initial release dates to hand, I'd go with those and call it authoritative in respect of these... I've spotted a few other things that the stats on my chart are revealing, but just got to gather a few more bits of data first regarding label changes, source labels etc. It would suffice to say for the moment that it looks like the there are distinct and separate phases of releases, with all the pre 41-1 appended cats being the first year's offerings, before most of these (Except for a couple of titles) not being re-pressed after this (Basically scrubbed the catalogue and started over again), but all after may appear on different labels as they are continually pressed until either reissued elsewhere, or replaced by a new compilation. The other thing to say is that Fame was essentially an EMI - Capitol venture, with all the original labels that Fame issues present being on labels held by one of these two "umbrella" labels... but Capitol appear to have gone cold on the idea after only a couple of months, and EMI bring in more "indy" label titles they have to replace the Capitol involvement (Capitol still release the odd one later, but not with the same kind of commitment they show in the first month or two)... And after a month of these smaller EMI label titles (Virgin too) being introduced, a deal must have been struck with MCA to replace the level of Capitol involvement... Just before the end of that first year (!982), then they start introducing the appended cats, barcodes, and keep pressing a lot of these from then on through the different label variations. When I bring 8.1 to it's knees eventually, I'll post more... but the bloody thing locked me out of my desktop computer, and says I can only reinstate it by going online and begging Microsoft for access to my own computer!!!! (But if I didn't have other means of getting online, how the hell would I do that if I can't Use my computer to do so? AAAAaaaarrrghhhh!!!!!!!) Apologies for the personal rant. |
| 19th Jul 2015, 3:51 PM | #116 REPORT | |
| Steptoe Keep your glow on Member since Sep 2011 995 Points | I Feel your pain MM, didn't have a lot of fun getting used to 8.1 either  |
| 20th Jul 2015, 12:03 PM | #117 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | It's that bloody Pin/Password screen that you never had on earlier Windows versions... If you have a young relative who likes to bash keys on your computer, then the "three strikes you're out of your own computer-beg Microsoft for access reinstatement" thing means that the only security issues a home desktop user like myself has is them keeping me out! (Learned my lesson though, notgoing to jump to Windows 10 till I've seen the woes of others outlined online- better the devil you know) |
| 21st Jul 2015, 5:23 AM | #118 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
It's that bloody Pin/Password screen that you never had on earlier Windows versions...
If you have a young relative who likes to bash keys on your computer, then the "three strikes you're out of your own computer-beg Microsoft for access reinstatement" thing means that the only security issues a home desktop user like myself has is them keeping me out! (Learned my lesson though, notgoing to jump to Windows 10 till I've seen the woes of others outlined online- better the devil you know) |
| 21st Jul 2015, 10:53 PM | #119 REPORT | |
| RadoxTheGreen Wait, I have to scan what now? Member since Jan 2013 772 Points Moderator | I might have a bash at the Windows 10 upgrade. Not enamoured with my switch to Windows 8.1, although that's mainly because it wouldn't let me transfer my Adobe Photoshop across without paying for a new licence (which I haven't... so far... I miss not being able to do circular crops though, need that for doing labels). |
| 22nd Jul 2015, 6:56 PM | #120 REPORT | |
 | nboldock Lend me ten pounds and I'll buy you a drink. Member since Feb 2012 7198 Points Moderator |
RadoxTheGreen wrote:
I might have a bash at the Windows 10 upgrade. Not enamoured with my switch to Windows 8.1, although that's mainly because it wouldn't let me transfer my Adobe Photoshop across without paying for a new licence (which I haven't... so far... I miss not being able to do circular crops though, need that for doing labels).
Sack it off and download GIMP for nowt instead. Sorted. |
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Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45cat for 7" singles : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds