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Cleaning 78s   


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  26th May 2019, 8:57 PM#1  REPORT  
fantasista

Member since Feb 2015
435 Points
I apologize if this has been asked already, but I did a search and nothing came up... I've read some contradictory advice about how to clean 78s online, some people recommending an old shoe brush (?), other people saying you need to buy an industrial wetting agent, that you need to let them dry for a day, others that you can play them when they're dry to the touch, even someone saying you shouldn't clean them at all, which seems stupid, but,..

So... just wondering, how do you guys clean your 78s, especially flea market or thrift store ones that have years of ick all over them?


  26th May 2019, 10:19 PM#2  REPORT  
Redpunk SUBS

Crates Are For Digging
Member since Aug 2012
25322 Points
Moderator
Mine is quite simple I use Washlets fragrance free which lifts grime off followed by tissue paper to dry, it might take more than one application.

Edited by Redpunk on 27th May 2019, 2:55 AM

  27th May 2019, 1:28 AM#3  REPORT  
scrough

No picture 'cos I'm not into 45rpm :(
Member since Jan 2013
3428 Points
Moderator
Put a small drop of washing up liquid on the record grooves, work it around with a wet paint brush (dipped in water and the size you use to paint windows,so 1 inch or less). Rinse under the tap. Put them in a plate rack to dry (usually less than 2 hours).

But before playing I always put it on the turntable and run a dustbug through it to pick up any dampness or loose dust.



Edited by moderator on 28th May 2019, 8:50 AM

  27th May 2019, 9:23 AM#4  REPORT  
j.monk

Member since Sep 2017
167 Points
I used some vinyl cleaning product for my very first 78 and that was a disaster, obviously ! :thumbsup:

20190222-084207.jpg

Though, the sound quality did not much deteriorate.
It's a dub, and I bought an original Brunswick copy since.

Now, I do mostly like Scrough: I use water with a small drop of washing up liquid (avoid too much foam !), and I rub the record with a sponge following the grooves (unlike what Bussard does on his video), then I rinse, I use a paint brush, and rinse again, but I dry the record immediately with a microfiber fabric, as I had pretty bad experiences when I let the records dry by themselves on a plate rack.
Works pretty well for me, and I can play my records pretty quickly after the cleaning.

Edited by moderator on 28th May 2019, 8:57 AM

  28th May 2019, 8:54 AM#5  REPORT  
xiphophilos

Member since Dec 2013
3351 Points
Moderator
Same here. Rinse the record under a running tap with lukewarm water only, try to keep the water off the paper label, clean with a soft, old toothbrush or a microfiber cloth. A tiny drop of dishwasher liquid is fine, but unless you are dealing with grease in the grooves, not necessary.

I immediately lay the clean record flat on an absorbent paper towel, then rub it dry along the grooves with another sheet of paper towel, switch sides and repeat until completely dry. Any remaining moisture could lead to mildew, and you don't want that.

Edited by moderator on 29th May 2019, 11:19 PM

  28th May 2019, 6:04 PM#6  REPORT  
Juke Jules SUBS

Tell me he's lazy, tell me he's slow
Member since Jan 2011
4138 Points
Moderator
I've done as Scrough described, adopting the procedure from cleaning LPs
Be careful only to do this on the traditional shellac with chalk filler type of 78 or any type of vinyl. Early construction techniques during the experimental period often used materials which would be destroyed by water, such as shellac with wood flour filler. Meths or isopropanol dried off quickly could be safe-ish, but preferably avoid contact with any fluid.


  28th May 2019, 6:27 PM#7  REPORT  
Quad5point1 SUBS

Member since Jul 2012
10688 Points
I don't have any 78's myself but to get the bulk of the water off after washing maybe you could try a Karcher Window Vac. It has a soft rubber wiper affair where it makes contact with the window. Just a thought. I also own a Moth Vacuum Cleaner, would something like this not be infinitely better for getting the moisture and grit away

Edited by Quad5point1 on 28th May 2019, 10:43 PM

  28th May 2019, 9:53 PM#8  REPORT  
getalife

So many questions, so few answers
Member since Nov 2010
877 Points
Moderator
Got this info from Bilbo, a few years ago.

Regarding acetates, and pressings. You could try brushing them in the direction of the groove with a soft toothbrush using warm soapy water. Be careful not to get the label wet or it may be damaged and reduce the value of the disc. Dry carefully by dabbing the disc with an absorbent paper or cloth. You can also help dry the disc using a hairdryer on a cool setting or warm setting. When dry, play the disc; you may have to stop every minute or so to clean the playback stylus, as it will often get clogged up with loose dirt or sludge from the previously wet groove. Do not allow this to build up as it can damage the groove. However, the noise you are hearing could also be previous damage from older playback systems and not reversible.




Edited by moderator on 29th May 2019, 11:16 PM

  29th May 2019, 2:22 AM#9  REPORT  
fantasista

Member since Feb 2015
435 Points
j.monk wrote:
I used some vinyl cleaning product for my very first 78 and that was a disaster, obviously ! :thumbsup:

Though, the sound quality did not much deteriorate.
It's a dub, and I bought an original Brunswick copy since.

Now, I do mostly like Scrough: I use water with a small drop of washing up liquid (avoid too much foam !), and I rub the record with a sponge following the grooves (unlike what Bussard does on his video), then I rinse, I use a paint brush, and rinse again, but I dry the record immediately with a microfiber fabric, as I had pretty bad experiences when I let the records dry by themselves on a plate rack.
Works pretty well for me, and I can play my records pretty quickly after the cleaning.
Ah, well, I'm glad for your sake that you didn't ruin anything irreplaceable. I tend to learn things the hard way so I can sympathize.

I've also seen that video of Joe Bussard scrubbing records in his laundry sink... it's a little hard to argue with a guy who has such a fantastic collection and has been doing this for 60 years, but I felt pretty sorry for those records nonetheless. :laugh:

Thanks to everyone for their advice, I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'll do - I already clean vinyl records in largely the same way, so it shouldn't be too hard. For rinsing, do you just rinse them under a running tap?
Juke Jules wrote:
I've done as Scrough described, adopting the procedure from cleaning LPs
Be careful only to do this on the traditional shellac with chalk filler type of 78 or any type of vinyl. Early construction techniques during the experimental period often used materials which would be destroyed by water, such as shellac with wood flour filler. Meths or isopropanol dried off quickly could be safe-ish, but preferably avoid contact with any fluid.

Thanks very much for the heads up. Most of my my records are from the 1930s-40s, and my oldest dates to 1915, so I'm assuming I'm in the clear with regards to water.


  29th May 2019, 2:56 AM#10  REPORT  
Redpunk SUBS

Crates Are For Digging
Member since Aug 2012
25322 Points
Moderator
Even some of the records from the 40's had a sawdust/cardboard filling due to supply shortages during the war and several years after, any crack allowing water to enter the disc will cause the 78 to swell.


Edited by moderator on 29th May 2019, 7:40 PM

  29th May 2019, 11:18 PM#11  REPORT  
xiphophilos

Member since Dec 2013
3351 Points
Moderator
Yes, I rinse my records under a running tap. Have updated my description above.


  30th May 2019, 2:53 AM#12  REPORT  
fantasista

Member since Feb 2015
435 Points
Redpunk wrote:
Even some of the records from the 40's had a sawdust/cardboard filling due to supply shortages during the war and several years after, any crack allowing water to enter the disc will cause the 78 to swell.
Oh... that's slightly worrying. I assume there's no way to tell these records apart?


  30th May 2019, 3:01 AM#13  REPORT  
xiphophilos

Member since Dec 2013
3351 Points
Moderator
You can see that some records are made with card board fillers, especially when there is a slight chip missing from the rim. But I've never had a problem with them swelling. Of course, I don't soak my records in water.

Here is a site that discusses shellac records from a professional preservation standpoint. There's also an image that shows a record with a paper fiber core:
https://psap.library.illinois.edu/collection-id-guide/phonodisc
By the way, the cleaning solution they promote should be used for vinyl only, not for shellac records.

The Library of Congress recommends cleaning the grooves with canned air:
http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html

Edited by xiphophilos on 30th May 2019, 3:14 AM

  2nd Jun 2019, 12:42 AM#14  REPORT  
mister_tmg

Also on 78rpm
Member since Apr 2012
1118 Points
I usually just use damp kitchen paper and wipe round, then dry with another piece of paper.


  3rd Jun 2019, 4:49 AM#15  REPORT  
George Slv

This comment marked as Spam. Please press Not Spam
Member since Aug 2012
498 Points
Nobody mentions carbon fiber brushes. That's the only way to get to the bottom of the grooves, but not wet since that would distort the fibers. I like the idea of a paintbrush the same way but haven't done it. I know vinyl cleaner would damage shellac.
By the way D4 is the worst product in existence. It has never made a bit of difference. And when it dries it may leave residue which causes new noise.


  4th Jun 2019, 3:23 AM#16  REPORT  
fantasista

Member since Feb 2015
435 Points
xiphophilos wrote:
You can see that some records are made with card board fillers, especially when there is a slight chip missing from the rim. But I've never had a problem with them swelling. Of course, I don't soak my records in water.

Here is a site that discusses shellac records from a professional preservation standpoint. There's also an image that shows a record with a paper fiber core:
https://psap.library.illinois.edu/collection-id-guide/phonodisc
By the way, the cleaning solution they promote should be used for vinyl only, not for shellac records.

The Library of Congress recommends cleaning the grooves with canned air:
http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html
Thanks very much for the links. As it turns out, I just picked up a copy of this that has a small chip missing from the outside, and it's pretty clear to see that it has cardboard filler.


  15th Jan 2020, 1:51 AM#17  REPORT  
GimmeVinyl

Member since Nov 2019
597 Points
Hmm.. interesting ideas here.. but I do have some reservations about running water from the tap onto my 78's.. as I will inadvertently get the label wet, no matter how careful I may be! Also, as some tap waters can be "hard".. calcium, iron oxide, and the like could possibly leave deposits on your records. Myself, I usually "dry clean" my 78s, using a plain white cotton t-shirt.. the softer, the better! I'll place one clean t-shirt on the table, and place the record on that, and lightly rub the playing surface with another t-shirt in a circular motion.. using the bottom parts of the t-shirt, of course! Now, I remember using isopropyl alcohol on a 78.. once! And had disastrous results as the record developed a dull hue.. however, I just may try this.. distilled drinking water, or water purified by reverse osmosis.. just dampen a spot of the t-shirt, and then gently rub.. then dry with another area of the t-shirt.


  15th Jan 2020, 9:52 AM#18  REPORT  
Quad5point1 SUBS

Member since Jul 2012
10688 Points
I don't know much about 78's but wouldn't a vacuum system work.


  15th Jan 2020, 12:48 PM#19  REPORT  
zabadak

Caddacack oh da ca-caddacack, shy shy skagellack
Member since Jun 2010
4156 Points
Sandpaper! :grin:


  15th Jan 2020, 2:23 PM#20  REPORT  
Quad5point1 SUBS

Member since Jul 2012
10688 Points
This MACHINE seems to do the job required, even has a hub that goes over the label. Although not a Vacuum system it may very well do what you want it to.


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