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| 12th Aug 2015, 7:23 PM | #21 REPORT | |
 | Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points | I don't know when they were released, but I have a few very low-numbered Epic 78's, all promos on vinyl. I think the lowest one I have is number 3, I don't recall the highest one. Maybe 11 or 17. |
| 12th Aug 2015, 7:59 PM | #22 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points | My neighbor, Ron, says the ones that he knows of are, "El Watusi", by Ray Barretto on Tico 419, 1963 and "Fannie Mae" by Buster Brown on Fire 1008, 1960, but, obviously, that's wrong. Jock Girl already mentioned Fire 1022. But, Ron never heard of it being on a 78 until now. |
| 13th Aug 2015, 9:37 AM | #23 REPORT | |
| fixbutte Member since Jan 2013 1483 Points Moderator | As you are here, Break-In Master: Do you know if the record added by you, Atco 6163, which must be from March 1960, definitely exists as a 78 rpm record? I have strong doubts about it, and the record has not been approved yet. I also have my doubts about End E-1058 by Little Richard which came out in Sep 1959, though possibly only as a 45 rpm. This one has not been approved either. |
| 13th Aug 2015, 10:26 AM | #24 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points |
fixbutte wrote:
As you are here, Break-In Master: Do you know if the record added by you, Atco 6163, which must be from March 1960, definitely exists as a 78 rpm record? I have strong doubts about it, and the record has not been approved yet.
I also have my doubts about End E-1058 by Little Richard which came out in Sep 1959, though possibly only as a 45 rpm. This one has not been approved either. Check the postings again for more info. |
| 13th Aug 2015, 10:45 AM | #25 REPORT | |
| fixbutte Member since Jan 2013 1483 Points Moderator | We may leave both records here on 78 RPM, with the comments questioning their existence, until we know for sure. |
| 13th Aug 2015, 6:31 PM | #26 REPORT | |
 | Jock_Girl A girl who looks good in vinyl Member since Dec 2012 1544 Points Moderator |
Break-In Master wrote:
My neighbor, Ron, says the ones that he knows of are, "El Watusi", by Ray Barretto on Tico 419, 1963 and "Fannie Mae" by Buster Brown on Fire 1008, 1960, but, obviously, that's wrong. Jock Girl already mentioned Fire 1022. But, Ron never heard of it being on a 78 until now.
Both Fire 1008 and Fire 1022 are well documented and are supported with images to support existance. While Fannie Mae did come out as 45 in November 1959, the release date of the 78 is widely believed to be after that. Even the 45 of Fire 1022 was 1960 however As to the release on Tico -- that is possible as many 'Latino' labels (including Discos CBS) pressed 78s well into the 190s As far as any others - -such as Atco 6163 -- with no images, or other documentation to support it, apart from one website of dubious quality, I cannot not agree that it exists Amy |
| 13th Aug 2015, 8:46 PM | #27 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points |
Jock_Girl wrote:
Break-In Master wrote:
My neighbor, Ron, says the ones that he knows of are, "El Watusi", by Ray Barretto on Tico 419, 1963 and "Fannie Mae" by Buster Brown on Fire 1008, 1960, but, obviously, that's wrong. Jock Girl already mentioned Fire 1022. But, Ron never heard of it being on a 78 until now.
Both Fire 1008 and Fire 1022 are well documented and are supported with images to support existance. While Fannie Mae did come out as 45 in November 1959, the release date of the 78 is widely believed to be after that. Even the 45 of Fire 1022 was 1960 however As to the release on Tico -- that is possible as many 'Latino' labels (including Discos CBS) pressed 78s well into the 190s As far as any others - -such as Atco 6163 -- with no images, or other documentation to support it, apart from one website of dubious quality, I cannot not agree that it exists Amy Amy, As I've said with the Atco, I have the Delta numbers for it. From what I've seen, in most cases, when Monarch pressed a 45 and 78 of the same record, they had sequential numbers across the for sides. The 45 might get 1 & 2 and the 78 would get 3 & 4, or the other way around, or, one might get 1 & 4 and the other 2 & 3, or even a combo of 1 & 3 and 2 & 4. as, in this case, there are only 3 sides sequential and two Deltas separating the 3rd & 4th sequential numbers, that SHOULD prove, at least partially, that the Deltas I have for the 78 are correct, as opposed to somebody just making them up. I just wish SOMEBODY would come forward with a set of the books, if any were kept, from Monarch listing every record they pressed and the Deltas used on each record. Likewise, in this case, with all the records on either speed, that Atlantic released. It seems to me that I have a few 78's on ABC-Paramount that are from the early `60's. It might take a while to find out, because my 78's are all over the house. I've got my 45's and albums organized nicely and shelved, but, I just haven't had the time or space to do the same with the 78's. I started at least twice, but never got very far before I bought or inherited a lot more of them and they never got filtered into the rest of the collection in any kind of order, partly because I started trying to archive them on cassette back in the late `70's and I wanted to keep the ones I already did separate from the ones I didn't get to. I also borrowed my aunt's vast jazz collection (her dad used to own a music store in N. Y., so, she got LOADS of pristine jazz records when they were first released). One of her kids has them, now, so, I no longer have access to them to finish archiving them. My dad had a huge stack of 78's, as well, that I added to the series, and, as he's now dead as of 8 years ago, they're mine, too. Back in the mid `90's, I started making a list of all of my records on floppy disks. All of my albums were on one disk, my 45's had to spread across 3 of them, because I have so many, the whole collection won't fit on one disk, and my 78's were on one disk, but, again, I never got that project finished either. I know where the albums and 45's disks are and, as of last night, copied the albums list over to this hard drive, but, I just can't seem to find the 78's disks!! I kept all of my record disks together in one Fuji disk box, but, the 78's disks (I kept 2 copies of each disk) are gone!! Once I find them, I'll see what my most recently pressed 78's are from the early `60's. I MIGHT have the 78's files on one of my other hard drives, but, it's possible it's one of the ones that died! Also, I have a copy of Disco-File, and the most recent version of Rock Record, so, I'll look up the Atco 78 on those in a bit. |
| 13th Aug 2015, 9:03 PM | #28 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points | Addendum: Oops!! I dood a boo-boo!! I just looked at the Deltas on that again and 34706 for the A-side of the 45 and the B-side of the 78!! THAT doesn't make sense at ALL!! Maybe I was tired when I added that info! They run 06, 05, 06, 09! WHY would I put 05 AFTER 06?? And, if there were two 06's, one SHOULD'VE been "06 (B)". I guess I gotta do a lot of checking!! I don't just add info to my list for the hell of it!!! That'd be absolutely pointless and would corrupt the list and make it worthless!! I make VERY sure that it is what it says it is!! I HAVE spotted a few typos over the years, but, those are generally no big deal to correct. In this case, I have a feeling the second 06 SHOULD be 08!! That makes all for sides sequential. |
| 13th Aug 2015, 10:03 PM | #29 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points | Ray Astbury's list only has the 45 Deltas. If he listed a 78, he'd say it was a 78. Rock Record doesn't have a 78 listed, the one The Coasters did before that was the last one Jerry lists as being on a 78, other than a Prime jukebox only reissue in the `80's, R&B Indies has no Deltas on it and makes no distinction as to there being a 78, Freddy Bohn's store says it's possible a few copies were made on 78, but, I didn't get to talk to Freddy, Whistlin' Willie Weber says he's never seen one, but he's going to call a friend that should know and will try to research it and let me know. The Coasters are one of his fave bands. |
| 14th Aug 2015, 12:18 AM | #30 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points | I've got someone at the library researching it. He looked it up in Music master, but didn't see anything about it being on a 78. |
| 14th Aug 2015, 8:50 AM | #31 REPORT | |
| fixbutte Member since Jan 2013 1483 Points Moderator |
Break-In Master wrote:
Addendum: Oops!! I dood a boo-boo!! I just looked at the Deltas on that again and 34706 for the A-side of the 45 and the B-side of the 78!! THAT doesn't make sense at ALL!! Maybe I was tired when I added that info! They run 06, 05, 06, 09! WHY would I put 05 AFTER 06?? And, if there were two 06's, one SHOULD'VE been "06 (B)". I guess I gotta do a lot of checking!! I don't just add info to my list for the hell of it!!! That'd be absolutely pointless and would corrupt the list and make it worthless!! I make VERY sure that it is what it says it is!! I HAVE spotted a few typos over the years, but, those are generally no big deal to correct. In this case, I have a feeling the second 06 SHOULD be 08!! That makes all for sides sequential.
that's what I've already said on the page fro Atco 6163: Does these numbers really prove that the 78 rpm issue was ever produced or even sold in the stores? Strange anyway that Delta numbers for the 45 A-Side and for the 78 B-side should be the same. |
| 14th Aug 2015, 9:41 AM | #32 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points |
fixbutte wrote:
Break-In Master wrote:
Addendum: Oops!! I dood a boo-boo!! I just looked at the Deltas on that again and 34706 for the A-side of the 45 and the B-side of the 78!! THAT doesn't make sense at ALL!! Maybe I was tired when I added that info! They run 06, 05, 06, 09! WHY would I put 05 AFTER 06?? And, if there were two 06's, one SHOULD'VE been "06 (B)". I guess I gotta do a lot of checking!! I don't just add info to my list for the hell of it!!! That'd be absolutely pointless and would corrupt the list and make it worthless!! I make VERY sure that it is what it says it is!! I HAVE spotted a few typos over the years, but, those are generally no big deal to correct. In this case, I have a feeling the second 06 SHOULD be 08!! That makes all for sides sequential.
that's what I've already said on the page fro Atco 6163: Does these numbers really prove that the 78 rpm issue was ever produced or even sold in the stores? Strange anyway that Delta numbers for the 45 A-Side and for the 78 B-side should be the same. I'd ask Ron if he knows anything about this record, but, his wife just had an operation to remove cancer from her kidney, today, so, I don't think records are on his mind much today. |
| 14th Aug 2015, 3:49 PM | #33 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points | A question I must ask here. I keep seeing the word "Delta" used in reference to record numbers, is this word an alternative for "catalogue" or "matrix"? Pardon my(seeming) ignorance, but I've always used the words "catalogue"(actual issue number) or "matrix"(stamper number). |
| 14th Aug 2015, 8:40 PM | #34 REPORT | |
| Break-In Master Member since Dec 2013 250 Points |
Neil Forbes wrote:
A question I must ask here. I keep seeing the word "Delta" used in reference to record numbers, is this word an alternative for "catalogue" or "matrix"? Pardon my(seeming) ignorance, but I've always used the words "catalogue"(actual issue number) or "matrix"(stamper number).
Over here, there was a pressing plant in California called, Monarch Record Mfg.. For every wax master they cut, they would assign a job number preceded by a triangle, which is the Greek letter, D, or Delta. Annaloog and I have a list on 45cat of the ones Anna has found. These numbers help collectors find more precise release dates for their records. |
| 15th Aug 2015, 1:46 PM | #35 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
Break-In Master wrote:
Neil Forbes wrote:
A question I must ask here. I keep seeing the word "Delta" used in reference to record numbers, is this word an alternative for "catalogue" or "matrix"? Pardon my(seeming) ignorance, but I've always used the words "catalogue"(actual issue number) or "matrix"(stamper number).
Over here, there was a pressing plant in California called, Monarch Record Mfg.. For every wax master they cut, they would assign a job number preceded by a triangle, which is the Greek letter, D, or Delta. Annaloog and I have a list on 45cat of the ones Anna has found. These numbers help collectors find more precise release dates for their records. So these "Delta" numbers are not in any way related to the catalogue or matrix numbers then. Is that correct? |
| 15th Aug 2015, 10:37 PM | #36 REPORT | |
 | sladesounds ● Turning rebellion into money since 1962 Member since Nov 2009 6556 Points Moderator | http://www.45rpmrecords.com/date_monarch.php |
| 14th Apr 2016, 9:02 PM | #37 REPORT | |
 | mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1118 Points | This is a really interesting thread, I've been researching this recently with a focus on the #1 hits. tony p wrote:
In the first of the following links is a table of what I believe to be the last 78's issued by each of the major UK labels.
In the second of the following links is a table of what I believe to be the last UK records to be issued only as 78's. These are based on data in the New Records magazine and the Gramophone popular record catalogue. Usually these two sources agree but not always. Also the Title and Artists sections of the Gramophone catalogue sometimes give different information about whether a 78 version was issued. The Tables refers to links and these are listed below the links to the tables. Good work Tony P, although there is an RCA issue later than the ones you have listed, from July 1960: RCA.1194 I was actually looking at the Gramophone April 1961 listing of records from the previous year, and they list this one with a 45- number only. I wonder why. |
| 4th Jul 2020, 5:47 PM | #38 REPORT | |
| mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1118 Points |
Shellac wrote:
Hi guy's without being able to see (or enlarge) the tiny print, can anyone actually POST the LAST known regular UK 78 issues?
I believe I have two: Russ Conway: Royal Event (Columbia) 1960 Adam Faith: Poor Me (Parlophone) 1960 This webpage has: Steve Stannard on Embassy: Pepe (1961) Could anyone expand please? It would be good in list format, though you can zoom in on Table 1 and the text isn't that small. Columbia does seem to have been missed out though. The Parlophone one is in the list. Embassy isn't in the table either. Tony P did say 'major labels', but Embassy probably sold more records than some other labels in the list. Steve Stannard's Embassy 78 (Perfidia / Pepe) seems to have been the last regular UK issue in January 1961 - that is a commercially released 78, not library music or acetates etc. There have been 78s issued in recent decades, but we are thinking of the last issues from the original "78rpm era". In any case, I imagine the more recent 78 issues are pressed on vinyl, not shellac. In the heyday of 78s, I think it was only Pye-pressed 78s that were issued on vinyl (including Mercury while they had the license). I'm not aware of other labels pressing vinyl 78s, but maybe they did. I would assume the late Embassy 78s were on shellac. I note that the lists also mention Oriole issuing two Phil Tate 78s in 1961, CB 1601 and CB 1602. Those were shown in the Gramophone Catalogue and Record Retailer but not in the New Records publication. The 45s were issued in February 1961, and the March 1961 edition of the New Records only lists them as 45s. So perhaps they were cancelled on 78? They haven't sold on eBay in the last few years, judging by the listings archived on Popsike and Roots Vinyl Guide. I suspect they don't exist on 78, and never did. Edited by mister_tmg on 4th Jul 2020, 6:16 PM |
| 1st Sep 2020, 3:17 PM | #39 REPORT | |
| mister_tmg Also on 78rpm Member since Apr 2012 1118 Points |
KeithS wrote:
Decca F11245,11254,11255,11256 seem to be the last batch
Are these the known 78s which follow the last issued Decca 78 cited by Tony P, F11220? F11245 certainly exists as a 78. The numbers you mention are certainly the only ones listed on 78 after F11220 by Paul Pelletier in his "Complete British Directory". So Bob Cort had the honour of the last British Decca 78. |
| 7th May 2021, 5:55 AM | #40 REPORT | |
 | Tane1976 Purplevinyl Member since Feb 2017 39 Points | New Zealand it was September 1957, in which we switched from Shellac 78s to Vinyl 45s. Late 78s - Pokarekareana - Maori Womens Choir Aug 1957 Diana , Paul Anka All Shook up, Elvis Presley (Both on 78 and 45) |
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