|
45worlds Forums » Vinyl Albums » View Topic
| FAME>>release dates? |
Add Reply
Page 4 of 7 : Previous : Next :
| 1st Jul 2015, 3:12 PM | #61 REPORT | |
 | Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points | Here in Australia, EMI never used the Fame label. Instead, we had a revamped Axis label from about 1978 or so(possibly earlier, not sure of exact date of Axis makeover). Prior to Axis, EMI had the Music For Pleasure label, linked in with Paul Hamlyn Books, and for much of the time(when it wasn't issuing those sound-alike albums), MFP delved into the EMI back-catalogues of EMI UK(don't think MFP ever issued any Aussie content). About 1970 or so, MFP started issuing a lot of non-EMI stuff and had effectively severed links with EMI, as far as the Australia/New Zealand market was concerned, even while maintaining the link in Britain, and both were using the same trademark design. It's all a bit confusing, really, and if you think too long on it, it'll do your head in! |
| 1st Jul 2015, 7:50 PM | #62 REPORT | |
 | An6y66 Member since Jul 2012 1817 Points | I've been staring at my few Fame releases for ages now holding them against their original EMI releases to see if there are any differences that could give ideas of dates. The Matrix numbers are all the same the only difference it seems is some have the 'Arun' signature in the run-off others have 'TOWNHOUSE' stamped instead. The sleeve date codes are useless as the sleeve are exact scans of the original issues, while Fame (In some cases more successfully than others) blurred out the original logos, they did not blurr out the original date codes. But the date codes on the inner sleeves are for the Fame releases. Real to Real and Fugazi by Marillion FA 41 3142 1 and FA 3196 both on the cream label with the EMI box   have 8/88 on the inner sleeve, 8th month of 1988 Real to real with  has no date code but say INNER BAG 603 (anyone any ideas?) Mariilion Script for a jesters tear, original label style repro  has 11/90 so would agree with the current entry date of 1990 and my ELO 2 FA 3003  3/82 I doubt these bags would have been changed around a lot, its not like they add any value for dealers to bother changing so they look to be a good indication of dating at least the label variantions. |
| 1st Jul 2015, 11:49 PM | #63 REPORT | |
 | TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points |
nboldock wrote:
Wasn't it just the case that MFP was their budget label, and Fame was their "mid price" label? (Not certain)
A price diiferential is possible, but Fame went in for re-issues of classic albums, where mfp continued into the 80s with the familiar fodder. My impression is that mfp had more 'greatest hits'-type albums in the 80s, but Fame pinched things like Pet Sounds, American Pie, John Lennon-Plastic Ono Band etc. It wouldn't surprise me if the pricing was higher than mfp, but it's still an imprint with a more 'serious' discography. (No offence, butdget fans - I'm Top [of the] Popper, after all!) |
| 2nd Jul 2015, 12:53 PM | #64 REPORT | |
 | Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Hello chaps... had a day out on the hunt yesterday. (wasn't the best day to be walking 10 miles in that heat, but I had fun! ((till I got home and felt the effects)) Went in a local independent record shop and bought.... Lionheart (original, not Fame though), so that made me happy... as well as another unusual coincidence: I found a Fame issue in the bin very near this: Gerry Rafferty - Sleepwalking, which Initially made my heart drop, as I couldn't remember having searched for this, so thought it meant I'd made an error. But I made a mental note of the particulars of this issue and when I got back, discovered happily, it was one of the missing issues in the sequence! So I've amended the list to include this at 41 3113 1. It was also on a Liberty reproduction label. I'm going to try and scan in the Steppenwolf cover today, and I've printed off my list, with space to other particulars, so might take a little while to get through that. But I have to say I'm getting a sense of this label now, and am getting a feeling about what this process is going to turn up through the facts.... The important thing initially is to forget the label design, when talking about the original issue of any of the Fame issues, as the whole discography is like a central stream into which titles come in, and some go out of press over time. So a very popular title that was first issued very early, may have all (or pretty much all) the label variants, signifying it was constantly in press from first issue... Others may not have fared so well, and will not be found on any other label variants due to a discontinuation of press (later, the label variants for any given title will bear this out), but it will be possible, once the label design dates are established, to see is a particular label variants is absent, but ought to exist... if the title jumps one in the chronology (unless of course, it was discontinued on the early label, and wasn't re-pressed until two labels later, due to the artist releasing a new work that would increase interest in their back catalogue, which will be a conundrum in itself). But I begin to think the move from the early light brown red grid labels to the final state original reproduction labels happened in rather short time frame, and in rapid succession, as they cast about for ways to freshen the designs... This is because I find a lot of the early state labels appear on titles appearing quite late in the sequence (cat wise), probably until the reversion to the 41-1 -less cat numbers, maybe 87 (?), and the yellow labels (and the white-grid), de-grid-ed light brown, and plain dark brown labels mark a period of new presses from about here on to say 88 or 89, when they finally settle on the original labels. So some of these labels were very brief phenomena. But we'll see. I'll just muster the energy now and crack on. |
| 2nd Jul 2015, 12:57 PM | #65 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Of course, not forgetting, that some artists or their labels may have decided to re-issue themselves, and take a title off Fame. (this will be part of my dating process) |
| 2nd Jul 2015, 1:46 PM | #66 REPORT | |
| ppint. Member since Aug 2012 6397 Points |
nboldock wrote:
TopPopper wrote:
I can vaguely recall the arrival of Fame. Yes, it is EMI, and until then their main budget label was mfp. In the early 1980s (synthesisers, New Romantics and all that) mfp was looking decidedly naff, with its "Hot Hits" and Mrs Mills-type legacy. I assumed then, and still do, that Fame was an attempt to launch a more respectable seeming label, and break from the image of mfp. As I understand, it was for re-issues of EMI material, and stuff they controlled like UK Motown. If there can be a budget label with street cred, then this was supposed to be it.
Wasn't it just the case that MFP was their budget label, and Fame was their "mid price" label? (Not certain) - no, not "just" - though it was certainly true that fame lps' & cassettes' price-point was roughly mid-way between that of the normal full-price lists and mfp's budget price: mfp's range of albums were mostly compilations aimed at people who'd likely have no other lps by the particular artist (if they were single artist albums), never have bought (most of) the original singles (if they were some kind of themed, multi-artist collection), or else, not looked after & kept them, and quite as likely be buying mfp albums as impulse purchases from supermarket & newsagents' racks, as aught else. - fame, otoh, was most definitely aimed at record & music shops, and at followers (if not necessarily collectors) of particular artists & styles of popular, pop, rock, etc. music, people who might need to replace loved lps they remembered paying anything from 21/6d through 25/-, 27/6d, 29/11, 32/6, 39/11... each for, but couldn't or wouldn't wear coughing up £5 (or more) a throw, to regain. - the packaging of the mfp line betrayed its "pile it high, sell it cheap" origins - which is not necessarily any kind of put-down: paul hamlyn (and his backers) made good money selling recordings emi'd lost pretty much all interest in, and selling them in large numbers; and then made a bomb, selling out his group's 50% share to an emi that didn't really seem to know how best to exploit it, once they'd gained total control. (i don't recall seeing fame lps racked in the same way - and i doubt most of them sold in anything like the numbers mfp'd've considered the minimum acceptable to keep them on the catalogue.) |
| 2nd Jul 2015, 2:39 PM | #67 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Inner sleeves will be a better guide for dating initial release only when they contain a disc with early light brown/red grid labels (no EMI or other label branding) later label discs' inners will be useful for determining that label design's appearance later on. |
| 2nd Jul 2015, 5:02 PM | #68 REPORT | |
| An6y66 Member since Jul 2012 1817 Points |  This is the inner bag I mentioned earlier, although it has no date code itself I think it can help date some of the other records advertised. Just a quick check and the Marillion and Iron Maiden Lps are all dated in the discography at 1985. The other side of the sleeve is for MFP which again are all dated on here as 1985/1986 however the Floyd LP has currently got no date would it be safe to say as it is being advertised along side these that its an '85/'86 release too? (by the way The record inside is the marillion lp advertised on the cream gridded background label) |
| 2nd Jul 2015, 6:10 PM | #69 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Difficult to say, as the bag advertises selective releases from the Fame sequence (although themed). I'd say if, with a high degree of certainty, the albums that appear on the inner sleeve fall within "striking distance" of one another, and are within the date range the bag itself, then it's likely the bag is accurate as far as year of initial release is concerned for each one... But of course, the only labels loaded for the Floyd one are my yellow labels (so far), and if all on the bag are from that date, then there ought to be other copies of these titles with the yellow labels.... or, A Collection Of Great Dance Songs exists with cream (shall we refer to the light brown ones as Vanilla from now on?) and red grid labels at least. I'm just beginning to draw up a check box chart for label variants for each title now, and I'm going fishing both on the net, and in record store bins soon for Fame labels. What I have done already today is take the highlighter to my list on the compilation releases, as opposed to straight re-issues of complete studio albums... not many compilations actually! ..only 32 of the 258 on the list. And the pattern is... 17 of those are in the first fifty on the list (big cluster in the first thirty two, then a couple of groups of two here and there, spaced 10, then five apart, then a huge gap till Beatles oldies at 081, then agap of 29, a cluster of 3, jump of one, then the odd one after big gaps for the rest of the sequence. What I hope this will prove is that when measured against the label variants, these compilations did not last long, being quickly replaced by other compilations, and if the change in label designs occurs during one of these clusters it narrows the date of that label's introduction, as opposed to a straight re-iisue, which may have remained in press throughout all the changes, and is hard to give a date to that finely. (it all makes sense in my head! ... but, if you forgive the "nerdism" (new word! - my Word! - Let the record show that I own that word!!!), there are so many variables at work here, you have to work one set of facts at a time in order to unlock the next set.) |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 10:06 AM | #70 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | A couple of corrections to be made before the day's observations: Botht the Motorhead : On Parole album, and The Hawkiwind: Masters Of the Universe (Not Road Hawks, as I may have said peviously - It's the heat getting to me!) albums... each issued twice on Fame, have the same track listngs and timings on bioth issues of each to their differently catted counterparts on Fame (Shows you shouldn't take people's word for it online!)... so same albums in both cases.... just different cats (don't know why!). Secondly, I had thought the same labels had been submitted twice for The Beatles: A Collection of Beatles Oldies... but closer inspection reveals one significant difference: One has red rim text on the label, the other black rim text.... which shows that a change was made during the light brown red grid labels (which is odd, as later plain labels revert to red rim text!). All submissions on the first page of the Fame discography have light brown red grid labels, with red rim text, and are in un-barcoded sleeves. Which brings me to a question perhaps someone can answer: When did Barcodes first appear on vinyl sleeves, and when, in particular, on EMI sleeves? This could be significant in helping withsome dates, as a few of the light brown red grid labels, which have the addition of the source label logo, appear in un-barcoded sleeves. |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 10:58 AM | #71 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | II'm finding it next to impossible to find any others with the toxic yellow red grid labels like my Pink Floyd: Collection Of Great Dance Songs. But I do remeber seing a Piper At the gates of Dawn with them. Seeing as mine has a barcode, and other White labels with Red Grid and Source logo labels appear in un-barcoded sleeves, it seems the move to the white labels and addition of these logos occured before the brief encounter with the toxic yellow labels... so provisionally place these lurid labels after the white grid labels (until I can find others to disprove this). |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 12:22 PM | #72 REPORT | |
 | jordansongs🍰 Member since Jan 2010 732 Points |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
When did Barcodes first appear on vinyl sleeves, and when, in particular, on EMI sleeves?
From the evidence available on 45worlds, I would suggest barcodes began appearing on EMI releases towards the latter end of 1983. The latest EMI release I can find without a barcode is Macca's Pipes Of Peace, released in October 1983. This Ashford & Simpson album is dated September 83 and there is this Beach Boys compilation from July 83, but the black labels suggest it may be a later re-pressing. Re: label colours, the EMI label appear to have switched from using the cream (vanilla/magnolia?!?) to black labels in around March 1984 (judging by single releases). I wonder if there is any possible correlation with Fame's label colour? |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 1:53 PM | #73 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | The majority of the un-barcoded releases on Fame have the Vanilla/Magnolia/Banana labels... But here's the thing that's throwing the whole thing out of whack for me... the lighter (White) coloured labels with the source label logos appear in un-barcoded sleeves too, and The scans for A Collection Of Beatles Oldies have Banana grid labels with red rim text (the most common type) in a barcoded sleeve, but there's the other banana grid label, with black rim text (need confirmation if the sleeve for this is barcoded)... ..but Cliff And The shadows "Cliff" is also a banana black rim text in un-barcoded sleeve... So what does this mean when put together? It means the White/light banana grid labels with logos have to have been the very earliest issues on Fame (I can only find the first in the cat sequence: The Stranglers: Rattus, with a white/light banana grid with logo)... then they changed to a red rim text, which then acquired the barcoded sleeves (Red rim text meaning this portion of text was printed on the label along with the other red business, like the Fame Logo and grid, then the black label text (Title specific info) printed on after, whereas before, the Black rim text would have been printed on at the same time as the Title info). So those bearing the logo of the source label would seem to be first. then the Barcodes begin to appear on the appended cat number issues: 41-1 cats, which would make these without barcodes pre-84 copies (or taking the Macca as the best example we have, pre- October 83). So I think the sequence of labels would then be changed to Light Banana Grids- Black Rim Text With Source Label Logo (1982-), then Vanilla/Banana red grid labels with red rim text in unbarcoded sleeves, until the 41-1 appended cat numbers, where the labels remain the same, but the barcode is added (late 83 -ish) The Toxic Yellow grids flicker briefly into life late 85- early 86 in barcoded sleeves, then the removal of the grid on the labels, going either from light brown to a darker tan colour, or vice versa probably shortly after, or around this time, until the repro labels appear (EMI never reconstruct their own labels on Fame interestingly enough (Kate Bush: Lionheart), but do add their own Box, which seems to increase in size until it shoves the Fame logo off the label altogether!)) But the way this is going, entirely the reverse will be true tomorrow! (One more observation: Other than Beatles Oldies, which does have a banana gird label, Beatles solo (and associated) ,and Iron Maiden are the only artists who have custom labels/repro labels before anyone else... and Capitol seem to have been insistent on this more than other labels) |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 2:39 PM | #74 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points | Sometimes You Win(Dr. Hook) is now uploaded, MM. The label is the "toxic" yellow with red grid and the source logo(in this case, Capitol) at the bottom. |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 3:03 PM | #75 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Thanks Neil. Yours are banana/vanilla/magnolia/pus/pimple coloured though (Hmmm anyone for breakfast?) I have a couple on the banana colour, and the Floyd on Toxic Yellow, and the difference is: [img][/img]  (My copy)And... [img][/img]  (also my copy, and they both look this way in reality, and the difference this great) Aaaahhhh!!! ... My Eyes! |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 3:11 PM | #76 REPORT | |
| Neil Forbes Rock, Country or R. & B. - Classic Hits for me! Member since Dec 2014 252 Points |
Magic Marmalade wrote:
Thanks Neil.
Yours are banana/vanilla/magnolia/pus/pimple coloured though (Hmmm anyone for breakfast?) I have a couple on the banana colour, and the Floyd on Toxic Yellow, and the difference is: [img][/img] (My copy)And... [img][/img] (also my copy, and they both look this way in reality, and the difference this great) Aaaahhhh!!! ... My Eyes! Leave the bananas out, MM, They don't ap-PEEL to me!  |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 3:46 PM | #77 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Rim text for all UK Fame labels: "All rights of the producer and owner of the recorded work reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring, renting, public performance and broadcasting of this record prohibited. Manufactured in the UK by EMI Records Limited" Yet somehow, while the black rim text goes from about 10-11, round to 1-2, those with red rim text squeeze this same text into a space between 9-10, round to 2-3... Except when the grid is removed, and the plain labels go back to the 10-11 round to 1-2 (please don't ask me why!) |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 3:49 PM | #78 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | Black Rim Text: [img][/img]  Red Rim Text: [img][/img]  |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 3:57 PM | #79 REPORT | |
| TopPopper Member since Mar 2013 2612 Points | There's a notice in Billboard magazine, dated 15 May 1982, saying the Fame label was due to be launched "later this month". See here, page 63: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JSQEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=billboard+1982&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9aGWVbSFHKrA7AbQ9InwAg&ved=0CGUQ6AEwEQ#v=onepage&q=billboard%201982&f=false Anyone brave enough could trawl though other editions on Google books to see if any of the releases are noted as they go. Here's another one: a source saying "Beatles Oldies But Goldies" was released on Fame on October 31, 1983, which disagrees with what we have at the moment (October 24). It also says the label was then 18 months old, pointing back to around May 1982 again for the very start... https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LDLhgzA930UC&pg=PT835&dq=fame+midprice+label+EMI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b6OWVY-nBY7e7Ab43Jf4Ag&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=fame%20midprice%20label%20EMI&f=false Edited by TopPopper on 3rd Jul 2015, 4:03 PM |
| 3rd Jul 2015, 4:00 PM | #80 REPORT | |
| Magic Marmalade If you're not lost... It's not an adventure! Member since Jun 2014 3745 Points Moderator | I'll look at that this evening TopPopper, thanks. (once I've had ten cups of coffee!) Neil, would you say your Dr. Hook labels are this startling yellow: .jpg) Found on musicstack |
Page 4 of 7 : Previous : Next :
Add Reply
45worlds website ©2025 :
Homepage :
Search :
Sitemap :
Help Page :
Privacy :
Terms :
Contact :
Share This Page
Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45cat for 7" singles : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds
:
Like us on Facebook
Vinyl Albums : Live Music : 78 RPM : CD Albums : CD Singles : 12" Singles : 7" Singles : Tape Media : Classical Music : Music Memorabilia : Cinema : TV Series : DVD & Blu-ray : Magazines : Books : Video Games : Create Your Own World
Latest » Items : Comments : Price Guide : Reviews : Ratings : Images : Lists : Videos : Tags : Collected : Wanted : Top 50 : Random
45worlds for music, movies, books etc : 45cat for 7" singles : 45spaces for hundreds more worlds